Powered Sharpener Setup Recommendations

[blgentry]

Second post to make the previous appear.


Brian.

[CasePeanut]

Thanks Brian (and Grepper and MikeB too!)

I've been bugging Cliff Curry for years! He is a very nice guy and incredibly responsive via FB Messenger. Cliff has been slowly working on his own 1x30 design that would be custom built for sharpeners with all the goodies we want like Variable Speed & Reverse. I keep hoping there will be a version to purchase, but not yet. 

In the interim, Cliff recommends the Rikon VS 1x30 as the easiest 1x30 to use out of the box. Cliff just started selling abrasive belts and accessories. I have an angle guide and selection of belts including Scotchbrite and leather belts arriving tomorrow. 

I'm planning on building a housing box based on Cliff's design as well. That will let me easily tilt the grinder for horizontal stropping.
 



Its been tough having a grinder with no belts! I'm eager to try it out. Tonight while I was waiting for all the new belts to show up, I pulled out an old bench grinder and a set of paper wheels I never really fell in love with. It took a while, but I figured out how to reverse the grinder so the wheels are running away from me and I am going to try using them Steve Bottorff style. 

I'm eager to compare the BESS score from deburring with scotchbrite, leather and paper wheels.

[blgentry]

Come on Case Peanut, tell us how you are doing with the new sander!  Have you turned any knives into toothpicks yet?  : Hopefully you still have all of your fingers intact.

Yesterday I broke down quite a bit of cardboard; both cutting the seams and cutting all the way through the sides.  They were mostly really big panels and I had to make them fit in my recycling bin.  On a whim, I grabbed an 8" kitchen knife that I had previously sharpened to 180 (or maybe 220?) grit and deburred without any compound.  It has a nice toothy edge as evidenced by the rolled newspaper test.

I've also thinned this blade out a little, but nothing too severe.  I was quite surprised at how well it did on cardboard boxes.  It really flew through them.  I don't use this knife for anything.  I bought it for $1 to practice sharpening and maybe give it away to someone who needs it.  It might become my replacement utility knife for jobs like this.

"Thanks Kally!"

Brian.

[grepper]

I agree with you Brian about how well a toothy edge does cutting cardboard.

A few years ago I experimented with toothy edge performance compared to a polished edge cutting cardboard.  Both did well right off the sharpener, but very quickly the toothy edge outperformed the polished edge.

I looked at both under the microscope to try and understand why.  It was obvious what had happened.  Cardboard is fibrous and a toothy edge acts like a little saw and breaks the fibers when slicing cardboard.  

Of course both got duller because the edges rolled.  The difference was that the toothy edge, when it rolled, was still rough and rolled unevenly thus preserving the tiny saw effect.  When the polished edge rolled it formed a long smooth surface that simply slid over the cardboard fibers.  The same effect as when a slightly dull rolled polished edge rides on the skin of an onion instead of slicing through but a toothy edge breaks the fibers and slices.

This was years ago and I can't find the microscope image of the rolled toothy edge, but I did find one I took of of a rolled polished edge.  You can see how a rolled polished edge forms a long smooth surface that lacks the ability to grab and tear fibers when slicking.

Rolled polished edge:

   

Of course YMMV, but that's what I observed when I checked it out.

[CasePeanut]

Come on Case Peanut, tell us how you are doing with the new sander!  Have you turned any knives into toothpicks yet?  : Hopefully you still have all of your fingers intact.

The Rikon is so much more fun the Worksharp! I'm having a blast with the additional speed and control. I've been experimenting with lots of different belts. I don't get along with the Trizact belts. Plain 'ole AO belts seem to work best with the regular stainless and carbon steel kitchen knives I usually sharpen, although I just got some SiC belts to try out too.

I've mostly been sharpening edge up with a sugi-sharp angle jig at 15 degrees. 120 AO belt to remove any chips and lightly apex, then refine at 220, 400 (if necessary), deburr on fine scotchbrite or leather belt. I seem to get best results if I lightly deburr first with the fine scotchbrite, then a little bit on a leather belt with white compound and then a few finishing swipes on a handheld strop with green compound. I still need to build the box for the grinder so I can easily turn it on its back for horizontal edge trailing deburring.

I did burn one tip a tiny amount on a small, super thin paring knife. I was doing too many passes at high speed. Since then I've been dipping the knives in water every few passes and it makes a huge difference in keeping the heat down. Once I have the grinder in a box I'll look into mounting a small drip system.

The Bess PT50B has been a revelation. I'm still working on getting my numbers down, but its interesting to see how important full burr removal is to the sharpness of the edge. I always test my edges on thin newsprint, but the BESS scores will show you when you have a sharpened burr or other defects that won't be very clear from slicing newsprint.

The next thing I need is more knives to practice! I've reached the point where I think I might want to try putting up a website to try and find a steadier stream of knives for practice. I've been getting a few a week, but would love to have a way to sharpen 10+ knives a week to keep improving.

I've also been working on garden tools and scissors. Not something I ever expected to enjoy, but I've been using the scotchbrite belts and some of the large rust erasers to clean up the tools a bit and then but a coarse working edge on trimmers, pruners and hedge clippers. The Trugrit Special stone and the Baryonyx American Mutt pocket stone have been a really easy way to sharpen the handheld garden tools. I did one electric trimmer by hand and it took all night! I'm going to try a Dremel next time I need to sharpen one of those.

More to come as I dive into the deep end...

[grepper]

Cool you are enjoying your new toy Mr. Peanut and learning its ins and outs!  In my experience, powered sharpening, well I guess any kind of sharpening, requires practice to learn what works best.  A good source for practice blades is a thrift store like Salvation Army, etc.  If you have a good store practice blades can be $0.50 - $1.00.  

I deburr with VF Scotch-Brite too.  It works on LOW, or wire edge like nothing else.  Takes some practice but well worth the effort.  

I'm not a Trazact fan either.  They seem to cut OK, but I can't stand the feel and sound they make when using them.  Also, I'd be a bit creeped out using a grooved belt with edge leading sharpening like you are doing.

I like AO belts too, with reservations.  They seem to cut well and have a nice smooth feel when sharpening and don't cost much.  The downside I've noticed is that they are very friable and don't provide consistent grit level very long.  Even more so with SiC belts.  Those things cut great when new, but don't maintain grit long at all.  Of course, YMMY.

My favorite belt is 150 grit Cubitron.  A great belt.  180 grit Deerfos ceramic is pretty good too when I want something a bit less aggressive.  I've found ceramic belts maintain predictable grit longest, cut great and have a nice smooth feel when sharpening.  Belts are a personal preference kind of thing and everybody seems to have their own favorites.  

You are absolutely right about deburring and the value of your PT50B.  IMHO, deburring is everything.  It's not difficult to grind an edge, but deburring requires practice and understanding.  Cool you are using a microscope!  I've found that lighting is extremely important when examining burr under a scope.  Specifically the direction of the light.  Burrs can be very visible or completely disappear depending on lighting.  Play around with diffused lighting from the side and from every angle.  Lighting makes a HUGE difference.  Hard to emphasize that enough.

Please keep us informed as to your progress.  Really looking forward to seeing some of your sharpness testing numbers from your PT50B!

[BillMoody1]

(Could of put this in a different forum but this is the one that cost me money)
  
  Hi; new guy here. I have been a very amateurish sharpener with a 1sm for awhile. Sometimes things get 
sharp and sometime not so much. 
 
  My son is one of those "fancy shmancy" chefs and when he graduated chefs school;
years ago, I bought him an edge pro he still uses.--Me--I liked the idea of the powered belts.

  Haven't looked on sharpening forums in awhile and wasn't seeing much on using belts; and then BAM--I found 
this Bess Exchange forum. You guys have upped the ante in knowledge from what little I really thought I knew.

   So I've been binge reading and watching videos(bigentry you're a professional videographer); and now the money is starting to disappear from this old retired guys bank account. Because of ya'll (yes I'm from Texas) there is a kallyrest on the way. 

  Now for the whole reason of this long post. This guy Mark at Mech USA should give classes to anyone selling stuff on 
the internet. I have never received such service. Follow up, shipping notices, invoices, personal notes, belt recommendations, and installation notes are up to 8 or 9 already and I just ordered it!!! I feel so informed I almost virtually cut myself. It'll take a little more saving for the usb microscope and a pt50B but Santa's not too far away.
  I'm mostly a lurker but every once in awhile I'll check back in. Again Mark, thanks already.     Bill

[grepper]

Welcome to the Exchange Bill.  I enjoyed your humorous post.

"(Could of put this in a different forum but this is the one that cost me money)"

We are always more than happy to assist in spending your money.  After all, other people’s money is the mostest funnest money of all to spend.

And so…  I wouldn’t hesitate to get a PT50B!  When I got mine I learned more in the first 30 days than I had in years of sharpening.  It’s really an essential tool for anyone at all serious about sharpening.

And when it comes time to get a scope, we can gladly assist you in dropping some $$$ there too!

http://bessex.com/forum/showthread.php?t...65#pid4565

And for just a bit more, a true metallurgical scope produces great images.

http://bessex.com/forum/showthread.php?t...93#pid5493

When I first got serious about sharpening I found a way to save a lot of time.  Use a 2.5” hole saw to make a hole in the side of you wallet.  Then simply hook it up to your dust collector.

+1 for Mr. blgentry's video production skills.  He has a knack.