Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Trizact A6 & A3
#1
for many years i have used A16's @ 1200 grit and i likem.

opinions on the next two higher grits A6 @2500 and A3 @ 4000.

i need some really super sharp blades for a butcher shop i just acquired for 1 of my exchange programs.  he has been happy with the A16's and leather after a two week exchange, but said could i make them sharper.

would it pay me to invest in the A6's and A3's...........or a better way to sharpen them to hold up better.

they get a lot of use.

i have tested toothy edges, but they do not work for him for two weeks.

let me know......................
.
.
<")))))<>(
Reply
#2
I'm surprised toothy didn't pan out.  I suspect remaining burr caused decreased performance.  I could of course be wrong.

Is he saying they are not sharp enough when you first give the knives to him?  Do you have a sharpness tester?  How sharp are they?  Knowing the BESS number would help a lot in figuring out what he is whining about.

Edge finish shouldn't matter much when it comes to sharpness.  Toothy or polished can be plenty sharp.  

What method or equipment are you sharpening with?

If you are creating an even burr from both sides and they still aren't sharp enough my first though is, again, remaining burr. Especially if LOW or wire edge or whatever it's called is present on the edge. Just leather won't remove it.  LOW can be sharpened but has little longevity.  It's crap for metal.

You Mr. Max have sharpened many more knives than I have so I feel as though I'm preaching to the choir.  Nonetheless, remaining burr is worth giving a second thought.  

Both of those belts are very fine.  Both should produce a very sharp edge.  If he thinks the blades are not sharp enough I'm guessing belt choice is not the issue.  Something else is going on.
Reply
#3
(03-16-2020, 03:13 PM)MaxtheKnife Wrote: for many years i have used A16's @ 1200 grit and i likem.
opinions on the next two higher grits A6 @2500 and A3 @ 4000.
i need some really super sharp blades for a butcher shop i just acquired for 1 of my exchange programs.  he has been happy with the A16's and leather after a two week exchange, but said could i make them sharper.
would it pay me to invest in the A6's and A3's...........or a better way to sharpen them to hold up better.
they get a lot of use.
i have tested toothy edges, but they do not work for him for two weeks.
let me know......................

Mr. MaxtheKnife, for me the A16 is also the highest grit in my portfolio and I find it sufficiently fine for kitchen knives.

You have mentioned that the knives got a lot of use. Such a knives are often too thick behind the edge and need blade thinning because otherwise they do not cut easily. Blade thinning is for me quite a challenging job because to keep the blade symmetrical requires skill, suitable grinder and high concentration. Wink

Jan


Reply
#4
(03-16-2020, 06:58 PM)grepper Wrote: I'm surprised toothy didn't pan out.  I suspect remaining burr caused decreased performance.  I could of course be wrong.

Is he saying they are not sharp enough when you first give the knives to him?  Do you have a sharpness tester?  How sharp are they?  Knowing the BESS number would help a lot in figuring out what he is whining about.

Edge finish shouldn't matter much when it comes to sharpness.  Toothy or polished can be plenty sharp.  

What method or equipment are you sharpening with?

If you are creating an even burr from both sides and they still aren't sharp enough my first though is, again, remaining burr. Especially if LOW or wire edge or whatever it's called is present on the edge. Just leather won't remove it.  LOW can be sharpened but has little longevity.  It's crap for metal.

You Mr. Max have sharpened many more knives than I have so I feel as though I'm preaching to the choir.  Nonetheless, remaining burr is worth giving a second thought.  

Both of those belts are very fine.  Both should produce a very sharp edge.  If he thinks the blades are not sharp enough I'm guessing belt choice is not the issue.  Something else is going on.
wed. update..........monday i borrowed a A6 from a fellow sharpener and i exchanged 4 knives with the butcher, 2 @ A16 and 2 @ A6, yesterday i stopped by to check, he was very happy with the A6 knives, so now to find out how long they last for him.

edge tester......i had one, but after a few months i sent it to a sharpener buddy in texas to test his work.....he still has it.
.
.
<")))))<>(
Reply
#5
(03-17-2020, 03:15 AM)Jan Wrote:
(03-16-2020, 03:13 PM)MaxtheKnife Wrote: for many years i have used A16's @ 1200 grit and i likem.
opinions on the next two higher grits A6 @2500 and A3 @ 4000.
i need some really super sharp blades for a butcher shop i just acquired for 1 of my exchange programs.  he has been happy with the A16's and leather after a two week exchange, but said could i make them sharper.
would it pay me to invest in the A6's and A3's...........or a better way to sharpen them to hold up better.
they get a lot of use.
i have tested toothy edges, but they do not work for him for two weeks.
let me know......................

Mr. MaxtheKnife, for me the A16 is also the highest grit in my portfolio and I find it sufficiently fine for kitchen knives.

You have mentioned that the knives got a lot of use. Such a knives are often too thick behind the edge and need blade thinning because otherwise they do not cut easily. Blade thinning is for me quite a challenging job because to keep the blade symmetrical requires skill, suitable grinder and high concentration. Wink

Jan

these are kinda new knives, maybe 2 months old and they all are "Lasting Cuts"...........8 bonners and 8 - 9" butchers.......more to follow.
.
.
<")))))<>(
Reply
#6
This is all very interesting.  In many sharpening discussions, people talk about how toothy edges last for longer in real world use.  Jason B, over on bladeforums, has done CATRA testing on some blades and found a marked increase in edge holding with edges ground at around 320 grit compared to 2000.  I think those were the numbers; I might be off, but the concept is correct... at least in his testing.

So this is quite interesting because for this person, the more refined edge is preferable so far.  I'll be really curious to hear about edge retention.  I get the feeling that a good butcher does a lot of cutting in between tissues.  Separating muscle groups for example, and only cutting through a bit of fat or other stuff in between.  For these tasks a really sharp edge probably glides through really easily.  It's probably mostly push cutting for this.

But then when they portion out a particular cut (cutting steaks or roasts or whatever), the butcher will certainly be using some slice cutting motions, which you would think would be better with a toothy edge.   But then I've never worked as a butcher so I don't know their process.  They might be using machines (bandsaw, etc) for cutting actual portions.

I'm always fascinated by real world applications of our craft.   Thank you Max for sharing with us!

PS: Thanks for all your comments on my videos.  Smile

Brian.
Reply
#7
Do I understand correctly that the butcher does not think the knives are sharp enough when you first give them to him? Sure would be nice to see the BESS numbers on a freshly sharpened knife before you give it to him. Without that it's all subjective. We don't know what he considers sharp.

If you got your tester back you could take it to his shop, have him give you a knife that he thinks is sharp and test it.

Not having an edge tester is like being a blind man stumbling around in a round room searching for a corner. The outlook is bleak and grim. All hope is lost! Life itself might not be possible.
Reply
#8
(03-18-2020, 11:43 AM)grepper Wrote: Do I understand correctly that the butcher does not think the knives are sharp enough when you first give them to him?  Sure would be nice to see the BESS numbers on a freshly sharpened knife before you give it to him.  Without that it's all subjective.  We don't know what he considers sharp.

If you got your tester back you could take it to his shop, have him give you a knife that he thinks is sharp and test it.

Not having an edge tester is like being a blind man stumbling around in a round room searching for a corner.  The outlook is bleak and grim.  All hope is lost!  Life itself might not be possible.
true mr grepper

let me say this, i did not put this in the start.

i have like 14 exchange programs with restaurants and the butcher.......all restaurants as of today are on hold...bummer.

11 are 2 week exchanges and others are 3 weeks...........for years i have always done them to 800 grit and leather and makes for a nice edge for veggie chopping, slicing and cutting meat.  the 2 week knives are somewhat sharp at the end of 2 weeks, but the 3 week exchanges all need work, some more than others.  i tested many grinds to get them all happy with the number of items they all cut and 800 grit seems to be the one.

now the butcher as you have read is different and yes, i did start him out at 800.....he is not an exchange, he calls when 4 each become dull.

so we are standing by now to see how the A16's and A6's work out......i will advise.

<")))))<>(
.
.
<")))))<>(
Reply
#9
(03-18-2020, 02:38 PM)MaxtheKnife Wrote:
(03-18-2020, 11:43 AM)grepper Wrote: Do I understand correctly that the butcher does not think the knives are sharp enough when you first give them to him? 
true mr grepper

let me say this, i did not put this in the start.

i have like 14 exchange programs with restaurants and the butcher.......all restaurants as of today are on hold...bummer.

11 are 2 week exchanges and others are 3 weeks...........for years i have always done them to 800 grit and leather and makes for a nice edge for veggie chopping, slicing and cutting meat.  the 2 week knives are somewhat sharp at the end of 2 weeks, but the 3 week exchanges all need work, some more than others.  i tested many grinds to get them all happy with the number of items they all cut and 800 grit seems to be the one.

now the butcher as you have read is different and yes, i did start him out at 800.....he is not an exchange, he calls when 4 each become dull.

so we are standing by now to see how the A16's and A6's work out......i will advise.

<")))))<>(
no Mr grepper...............he says they were dull after he used them for 8 to 14 days or so
.
.
<")))))<>(
Reply
#10
Got it.  The knives are sharp enough when you give them to him but don't stay sharp as long as he would like.

As you know, I'm familiar with those Lasting Cut knives:
http://bessex.com/forum/showthread.php?t...365#pid365
They can obviously take an edge and get nice and sharp.  That said, they are very inexpensive and maybe they use not so great steel to control costs.  It will be interesting to hear of you solve the problem simply with a change in edge finish.

Here a couple of other ideas:

Ask him if he has used other brands of knives that performed better.

Give him a basic Henckels, Wusthof or Victorinox, etc., to try.  Nothing fancy, just one of their common, basic knives.  If nothing else it would be an interesting experiment.  Maybe the next step up in knives might make a difference.  Who knows. If it did or not it would be interesting.

Let us know how it all pans out Mr.Max.  Than I'll finally be able to get a good nights rest.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)