The Toothy Truthy- Sturgis Rally 2017 Event

[Mark Reich]

As some of you know, the Sturgis Rally, or more directly, the Legendary Buffalo Chip Campground, is a significant part of my year. We sharpen tons of knives. It's one of the things we do to generate interest, not make money. We only charge a couple bucks. I can't believe how many friends we've made, or how many people only need to sharpen their knives once/year. 

Anyway, I decided to do nothing but super toothy edges this year, and I think we did great. I've taught two of my crew to sharpen, so I can socialize more. This year I brought a few Kallys, a new low speed Viel, and what has proven to be the secret sauce- 3/8" diameter, 10" long, DMT 625 grit Dia-Sharp rods.

I let my friends make up their own minds on how they want to sharpen. Obviously, the difficult part is deburring. I give them all the training and tools they could ever need, and let them develop their own system.

By the end of the second night, we all realized the diamond rods totally remove the burr in about two strokes per side, while leaving almost all of the tooth of a 120 grit belt. The customers were happier than ever, and it takes me about 30 seconds to sharpen and deburr almost any blade.

Interestingly, we figured something else out. When I sharpen a knife in 30 seconds, people don't tip. They are amazed with their knives, but they figure $2-$3 is plenty for something that looks so easy and takes so little time.

In previous years, I used to refine the the burr away. It takes way Way longer, and produces a much smoother edge, capable of tree topping with virtually any knife. Guys were amazed. It was normal to have a pile of knives to sharpen. At times there could be as much as a 30 minute wait to get their knives back to them. I'd rarely get less than $5. $10 wasn't uncommon. Some guys tipped $20 or more.

Now we are giving them a much more effective edge in a fraction of the time it used to take, but we barely made half as much money off sharpening this year.

Sure, I could just raise the price, and I doubt anyone would balk at $5. After all, that was previously the norm when it took 2 or 3 minutes or whatever, but 75% of my time was just completely refining the burr away.

With diamond or ceramic sticks, it's very cool to watch a big ol' hairy burr just fall off the edge like tinsel in a few seconds. This is far from new to me. I started making the rod holders many years ago, and they've always worked incredibly well. I didn't ever use them at events, because I knew guys would think that was "cheating". It does seem too quick and easy.

[Rupert Lucius]

Mark

Hope, you wrote custom orders and sold from your inventory.

Questions:

do you have a preference ceramic rods or diamond rods for the de burring?

what 120 belts were you using for sharpening?

Thanks
Rupert

[grepper]

Mr. Mark, very cool to hear that you have gravitated towards the toothy truthy too! (Say "toothy truthy too" 10 times really fast).   I’m also happy, but really not surprised, to hear that the folks for whom you sharpened blades for liked the edges you produced.  It would be great if you could hear back from some of those people after they have really used the knives, however I realize that is probably not in the cards.
 
I know that most folks really have no idea about the difference between a smooth and toothy edge and what it means as far as usability goes.  Indeed there is a place for smooth edges such as chopping or shaving, etc., but for a general use blade and anything that involves slicing tooth really seems to win out. 
 
There is nothing more frustrating than what seems to be a sharp blade just riding on the surface of something and failing to cut without a great deal of pressure to force the blade through.  I’ll bet just about everybody who uses knives has experienced that.  I used to sharpen to a smooth edge for folks, and I’m sure that some of them wondered why they could only cut a tomato without smashing it for such a short time.  They probably thought I did a crappy job of sharpening.
 
I’m very interested in your method of deburring.  As you say, that is the most difficult part of the whole sharpening process if you are trying to not smooth the edge.  I can do it, but it is very time consuming, so if your method is as quick as you say and yet effective without smoothing the edge I’d like to hear more.  I’d love to throw one of the blades you have sharpened and deburred under a microscope and have a little look-see at the edge.
 
Diamond is aggressive and 625 grit is pretty fine, so I’m exquisitely curious as to how much tooth remains after deburring with the DMT.  What sounds promising to me is that you say it only takes about 2 passes per side.  Is this done with very light pressure?
 
This sounds very cool, “it's very cool to watch a big ol' hairy burr just fall off the edge like tinsel in a few seconds”.  I love it!  Hairy burr just falling off the edge like tinsel!
 
How do you judge the amount of tooth left after deburring?
 
You mentioned how surprising it is that some people only feel the need to sharpen once a year.  For a lot of people I think once a year would be an improvement!  I’ve been given chef’s knives to sharpen that were literally butter knife dull.  How do these folks even use stuff like that?  Geeze.
 
Bummer folks don’t realize just what they are getting when they get a blade sharpened from you.  What they fail to realize is how many years of experience and expertise it takes to make it be a simple and quick process and yet produce an excellent and very useful edge.  Funny how almost anything expertly done looks easy.
 
To increase profits you could wear a lab coat, set up a microscope and give out an occasional print of an edge.  I’m sure nobody has ever seen anything like that before, and folks would think you are some sort of mad blade edge scientist.  Tell everybody it will take 30 minutes.  Take all of the knives and disappear into a tent for the final “secret finishing process”.  Actually this just gives you time to enjoy a cold brew.  30 minutes later emerge from the tent with the finished product.  Maybe that would produce more $20.00 tips!

[Rupert Lucius]

I continue to remember a Baldor buffer with paper wheels and the Lady at Bass Pro in Springfield, Mo. (http://www.razorknife.com)

Sharpening made simple - one wheel with grit 180/220 for sharpening - another wheel with white for final burr removal.

Rupert

[EOU]

That is interesting Mark and thank you for the Sturgis report. We are intrigued as well with regard to your new method of deburring an edge. That revelation alone is huge. It currently takes us about 30 seconds to raise a burr using a Kally and two or three minutes to remove it properly so we are really looking forward to giving this a go.

[Rupert Lucius]

That is interesting Mark and thank you for the Sturgis report. We are intrigued as well with regard to your new method of deburring an edge. That revelation alone is huge. It currently takes us about 30 seconds to raise a burr using a Kally and two or three minutes to remove it properly so we are really looking forward to giving this a go.

Sharpened a Forshner #40552 using a Norton Blaze Orange 120 grit made in the USA  -  some previous grinding with belt.  No effort to raise a burr,  two light passes (light)  at 15* per side.

Sharpened a Spyderco #KO5PBK Seki City Japan, using same belt and technique.

No problem removing burr using 204 Sharpmaker with diamond rods (P400 grit 40 microns) set the rods in the 20* per side holes (40* inclusive) - five passes down the right and the left rod (alternating left/right).  Unable to locate any "whiskers" on the knife they are on my unshaven face.

Did not have a microscope, used the Horizon 10x loupe and adding machine paper - nothing in ref to burr, nothing.

Unable to test with my PT 50 (out on loan to my Son).  Sharp as hell what ever that is?  No trouble slicing tomatoes.

Rupert

---

That is interesting Mark and thank you for the Sturgis report. We are intrigued as well with regard to your new method of deburring an edge. That revelation alone is huge. It currently takes us about 30 seconds to raise a burr using a Kally and two or three minutes to remove it properly so we are really looking forward to giving this a go.

Go ahead and give it a go - you may like the results?

Rupert

[EOU]

We will Rupert. Do you and Mark regard diamond embedded rods as the key? If so, why do you believe that this is so?

[Rupert Lucius]

Diamond rods are not the only key(s) to the burr removal kingdom.

Usually at hand are my Spyderco 204 ceramic rods medium, brown in color @ 15 microns and Spyderco 204 diamond rods @ 40 microns.

My favorite rods are DMT (red - 25 micron) cut in length to nine inches.

De burring angle in ref to edge angle should be greater - does not have to be precise - a greater angle.

[Mark Reich]

Sorry for the delay in my response guys. Thanks to everyone who has taken an interest and thank you for your contributions!

I'm still in work mode. Seems like I never remember how long it takes to get past the rally. There are so many things that pop up during the rally that need attention afterwards.

Thanks a bunch to Mr. Rupert, who has  been giving perfect information. Totally spot on to everything I'd say, which may be somewhat expected. We do use the same rods and rod holders. More on that later.

To  answer some questions; I found a box of 120 grit Blaze belts, so that's practically all I used. They work very well for sharpening. Even when they feel smooth, they keep on sharpening with a decent scratch pattern, so I used about one per day. I only used One 60 grit CubitronII for the whole 10 days, and it's still in great shape. The crew mostly used the good AlO belts from Klingspoor in 220 grit, at about 3-4 belts/day, and they used the Blaze for their heavy work.

There is no doubt I'll have plenty of feedback next year. I sharpen many blades once/year, and that's all those blades get. I'm really looking forward to next year, because I expect folks will be able to determine which works better.  

I don't think there's much difference in either ceramic or diamond rods for deburring. They're both super effective. Ceramic rods seem to deburr at least as well as diamond rods, but they need to be kept Totally clean. Ceramic rods give you a more refined edge, always shaving sharp. Diamond rods leave a lot of tooth, and virtually never need to be cleaned, but I still turn them all the time like ceramic rods. It's a good practice.
 
The edges that got deburred in just a couple passes per side on the diamond rods are very grabby, so most guys tried to shave arm hairs. They were surprised when they couldn't shave much. I just told them that it wasn't a shaving edge, it's better at slicing, and it should last longer. We'll see what they say next year.  

I noticed the big ol' honkin' burr falling off like tinsel on ceramic rods a very long time ago. I don't know why ceramic and diamond rods aren't more popular. Maybe because it seems too cheap and easy to work well? I don't know. Interestingly, you do get a ceramic rod with every Edge-Pro...

Many years ago, I made some ceramic and diamond rod holders that have accurate 1* increments from 10-30 degrees, . I made them so a guy could touch up at the exact angle he got off the Kally, Edge-Pro or WEPS. They weren't a big success for people who sharpen a bunch, but my friends and family use them, and I never sharpen their knives anymore.

The Sharpmaker is as good as any other set of rods, but not really better IMHO. An advantage of rods is that you can sharpen, turn the rods a hair, and sharpen on a new, clean piece of rod. The whole problem with ceramic is that it starts clogging immediately, after which you are basically rubbing metal against metal. They do clean up quickly and effortlessly with liquid Bar Keeper's Friend. Just apply and wait 10 minutes or so before rinsing. Scrubbing doesn't seem to work any faster. If they aren't clean, just repeat.

Thanks again, Gentlemen. 

[grepper]

Interesting stuff, Mr. Mark.  Thanks for the report.
 
Mr. Mark uttered, “I only used One 60 grit CubitronII for the whole 10 days, and it's still in great shape.”
 
Cubitron and Cubitron II belts are my new favorite!  Thanks for turning me on to them.  I love the finish they produce, and like you mentioned, they seem to just keep on cutting.  Unless for some odd reason I need a finer than 150 grit, I see little reason to get anything else.  They are the best belts I’ve used so far, hands down.
 
It’s so cool to be able to use a 60 grit belt for sharpening!  With light pressure, they create an great edge and raises a burr extremely quickly, and does not remove an excessive amount of steel.  Light pressure is the key.
 
“They were surprised when they couldn't shave much.”
 
I’m no expert, and wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn that I’m, like, totally laboring under a delusion, but I’d venture a guess that either the blades were not sharp, or more likely, there was still burr.  I have created very toothy edges, and I know you have posted the same finding, that a very toothy edge has no problem shaving hair.  It would be a nasty experience shaving your face with it, but at least from what I've seen a sharp well deburred toothy edge seems to have no problem sharing arm hair.
 
I have made a toothy edge that at first had problems sharing arm hair.  When I threw under the microscope I observed that there was still burr.  Once I removed the burr, it shaved arm hair with no problem.  Again, I’m just a guessing.
 
It would be interesting if you could do some experiments and see if you have the same results.
 
“There is no doubt I'll have plenty of feedback next year.”
 
Really?  A whole year?  I wish we didn’t have to wait a whole year!
 
“Ceramic rods… They do clean up quickly and effortlessly with liquid Bar Keeper's Friend.”
 
Bar Keeper’s Friend, both powder and liquid is amazing!  It’s like a cleaner direct from God!  It removes stains, rust and about everything else I’ve ever tried it on like no other earthly product.  I’ve used it on porcelain, stainless steel, cement, rocks, glass, and even plastic.  It works on rust buildup and stains and mineral deposits like nothing else.  But wait… there’s more!  It’s very inexpensive too.  Like their motto says, “Once tried, always used”.  I couldn’t agree more.  If you haven’t tried it, give it a try. 
 
The stuff is actually a fairly weak concentration of oxalic acid and citric acid.  The dude who created it did so after noticing how clean his pots were after cooking rhubarb.  Rhubarb contains oxalic acid.  Letting it sit for awhile after applying it to something gives the acids time to do their thing.
 
Just so you know, I have no association with Bar Keeper’s friend whatsoever.