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Restaurant commercial knives
#11
(03-28-2017, 08:33 AM)grepper Wrote: I searched around and can't find them, other than people saying that they find them in local restaurant supply stores.  There is only one such store around here so I'd have to get really lucky.  Ever pull a new Victorinox chef's knife out of the package and feel it?  How does that compare.

If you get a sharpness tester we could figure out how sharp it is and have some way to communicate it's sharpness level. Wink  I put off buying one for a long time.  After I got the PT50B, the first time I used it I understood what I had been missing.

here is a brand new one right out of the box....f y i
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#12
Jan,

No one van guarantee exactly 1/100 part of 1 degree becouse if the room temperature differs the angle also will differ a little. I cannot meassure this, it is around +/- 1/1000 part of 1 degree.

But you can find the angle there is on the edge with the help of the black dot and permanent ink Smile

Yes, if you also have the Rail to Chef you can hold the same angle all along the edge - but it needs a lot of meassurements when you sharpen the belly and tip. Keep the distance 28 cm between the edge and the pivot point all along the belly and the angle will not change.

No, it is not a change of the angle, it depends on that I grind a little more on the place where the 10 degree bevel are a little wider. I removed to much material there.

You are correct, but I meassure with turns on the nut, not on the protractor. Tye protractor shows degrees abd half degrees. That is all. I can mark also 0,25 degrees, but I do not think that is necesarry.
I van use the protractor and adjust the pivotpoint to, lets say - 10 degrees. Then I can use the blaxk dot. Every full turn change the angle 7/100 part of 1 degree. If I, for some strange reason, like to have a edge on 10,14 degrees I asjust the pivot point to 10 degrees, and then I make two full turns on the nuts to get to 10,14 degrees.

Thomas
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#13
Thomas,

I have appreciated your additional explanations. I know now that you are really a bevel angle wizard! Good luck with your sophisticated sharpening system.  Smile

Jan


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#14
Jan,

Sometimes I like to know the differance between two type of steels in edges. To compare them, my way, is to use

To be able to compare them, those edges must be exactly the same down to, at least, 1/100 part of 1 degree.

That was one of my reasons why I built precission down to this levell. I also enjoy to be able to choose what I shall do to a edge. When I am out in the Forest I sharpen by hand, am I home I use a tool, when I use my tools I can choose what tool and the levell of presision. From all those things I am learning new things.

For example, Fallkniven F1 is a nice knife and I carry it sins some years back as a daily knife around the house. F1 have a convex edge as you know, the convex sphere is 6 degrees. Close to the handle the cutting edge hold 20 degrees per side, 40 degree total. On the belly and the tip the edge holds 13,5 degrees, 27 degrees total. So, the degrees on the cutting egde changes from 40 to 27 degrees along the edge.
The edge holds high angle where people use the highest force - and the edge holds lower degrees where people use less force.

Bark River also use convex edges on their knifes, but there edges are slightly convex, the convex sphere holds 2-3 degrees, that is half of what Fallkniven edges have...

So, both are nice knifes - but their edges work very differently.

You and I can communicate flat edges. We can sharpen the same knife in for example 30 degrees and then discuss how this knife work. But, we cannot communicate convex edges becouse we cannot meassure them (and we have no words for it eather).

My solution with a bended, or angled, guide rod opens up this communication. We can use our ChefConfused and make identical edges - and evaluate them - and discuss what we have learn from use.

That was one of my demands when I started to create sharpening tools. Also my first sharpening tool had a bended guide rod and could make convex edges.

Thomas
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#15
Thomas,

Fallkniven F1 is on my wish list also because I like the convex grind. I was not aware that it is so large change in the bevel angle along the edge. Wink

Recently I was repairing broken tip of an old stabbing weapon also with convex saber grind.

   

The history of this shortened sabre is interesting. It was originally probably gendarmerie saber used in Austrian-Hungarian Monarchy in the second half of the 19 century. When the owner died and the family had not the necessary license, the saber was officially broken. From the broken part a shorter stabbing weapon was made. This is especially well visible on the shortened sabretache. The total length now is 40 cm (16") only.

Jan


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#16
Jan,
All knifes are peoduced with flat edges becouse there are no machines that can make convex edges. All convex edges are grinded by hand on beltgrinders.

The persons that so rhis jobb are payed by number made convex edges per hour... The result of rhis is that in a serial of 1000 knifes there is not two knifes that have the same edges, there is 1000 different edges. There is no knifes in this 1000 knifes that have the same edge angle on both side of the edge. That is the quality of edges today Smile

So, if you by a F1 the edge can differ 1-2 degrees, up or down, from what I wrote above.

The distance between the pivot point and the cutting edge makes the degrees. This menas that if you clamp your knifes a little diagonally - the distance differ along the edge, you will get a higher edgeangle close ro the handle and a lower angle on the tip.

Thomas
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#17
fyi and more to follow.
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https://youtu.be/9d49Mp8LxI4
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#18
I'd go with a different belt. The Deerfos ceramic 220 and light pressure will give you a better edge than the Trizact and deburring would likely be easier which is what I think your issue is. Do you have any of Ken's CBN emulsion?
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#19
pjwoolw, welcome to the forum. Smile

Any idea where I can pick up a 1x42 Deerfos ceramic 220?  I can only find them in 2x72.

Also, what benefits are you seeing by using a CBN emulsion?
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#20
Supergrit.

I use CBN at 4 micron on a leather belt to finish 99% of the knives I sharpen. Three belt progression. 80 or 120 ceramic then 600 silicon carbide then leather. Leaves a good all around edge in five minutes or less per knife including reshaping the blade.
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