01-06-2018, 02:32 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2018, 09:06 AM by Mark Reich.)
Thanks a bunch, Mr Jan! Being an HEPK Mastersmith (actually the 2nd) under Mr Ed Fowler is a tremendous honor to me. I don't care about the ABS, they don't care about me, and they don't get my membership dues. I don't care about the knives they make, or what the ABS has come to stand for. Mr Ed Fowler was a Founding Member, directly under Mr Bill Moran, who not only directly Taught Mr Ed Fowler how to make knives, Mr Bill Moran Started the ABS with the help of his wife and Mr Ed!
My Paragon is a "220V 24" Double Barrel". It has 11" Inside width, with state of the art control, also wi-fi capable. I can heat treat anything, but I only heat treat knives I've forged. When I design a knife and have them waterjet cut, I usually get 150 blanks to grind. Brad Stallsmith, at Peters HT, heat treats M4 and S35VN for about $2/blade for 50 blades. They are Exactly to my specifications.
In actuality, the temperature difference at the top of the kiln to the bottom is negligible, even in brand x. The difference from front to back in brand x depends how close the tips of the blades are to the back wall. With a recommended distance of 1", the temperature difference is enormous. Judging by color, probably 200°F minimum, at 1500°F. Most guys don't harden their tangs anyway, but I sure do. Since I draw the whole blade, except for the edge, drawing the tang is nothing
Brand x lists outer dimensions, so they call mine 18" long, but interior length is about 13" total, with "usable" length of 12", but this puts the points of the knives 1" from the back wall coils. I've tried a 1/8" thick plate 1" from the back wall to act as a baffle. This does not work, and reduces length capacity by 2", because I still kept the tips 1" away from the baffle. Baffles are surprisingly ineffective in my experience.
I talk to brand x reps at the Blade Show every year, and it's like they've never seen their kiln in use. They told me to start with a cold oven, and set for low ramp. Like I said, it's like they know absolutely nothing. Nothing!
Really? Start with a cold kiln? So I have to wait several hours for the next blade or next cycle? Idiots. Everyone knows that's not just impracticable, it's dead wrong. Always start with your kiln at temp. The faster you can heat blades the better. That's why salt pots are much better, but they are expensive, take a lot of space, and they're very dangerous. Few people use them for those reasons. Induction heating is virtually exclusively Industrial, and the only other method I know of.
Paragon, on the other hand, shows Interior dimensions, so they aren't trying to fool anyone. Coils in the ceiling work PERFECTLY. There are coils on the sides too, but I don't think they make too much difference. I always made sure to rotate the knives on each heat cycle in brand x, because I know it has to make some difference when the blades are only 1.5" from the coils. With the Paragon, it doesn't matter, since it's twice as wide and twice as long. Height is the same. The price difference was negligible for me, but now the 2x bigger, 220V, much heavier duty, Paragon is about 40% more expensive. I don't know the price difference on similar size kilns, but brand x had to lower their price a Bunch. They still don't put coils on the ceiling anyway, so it's positively a no-brainer, unless you do small knives one at a time.
I never would have thought size mattered so much, but it's Very Clear now. The Paragon works perfectly, and I only use brand x for tempering. I don't mind if the tips are a point tougher (softer). I couldn't care less how much electricity it takes, I just want my knives exactly the same temperature when I'm running critical cycles.
I was totally blown away the very first time I used the Paragon. Seeing the exact same color from tip to tang was Shocking!
My Paragon is a "220V 24" Double Barrel". It has 11" Inside width, with state of the art control, also wi-fi capable. I can heat treat anything, but I only heat treat knives I've forged. When I design a knife and have them waterjet cut, I usually get 150 blanks to grind. Brad Stallsmith, at Peters HT, heat treats M4 and S35VN for about $2/blade for 50 blades. They are Exactly to my specifications.
In actuality, the temperature difference at the top of the kiln to the bottom is negligible, even in brand x. The difference from front to back in brand x depends how close the tips of the blades are to the back wall. With a recommended distance of 1", the temperature difference is enormous. Judging by color, probably 200°F minimum, at 1500°F. Most guys don't harden their tangs anyway, but I sure do. Since I draw the whole blade, except for the edge, drawing the tang is nothing
Brand x lists outer dimensions, so they call mine 18" long, but interior length is about 13" total, with "usable" length of 12", but this puts the points of the knives 1" from the back wall coils. I've tried a 1/8" thick plate 1" from the back wall to act as a baffle. This does not work, and reduces length capacity by 2", because I still kept the tips 1" away from the baffle. Baffles are surprisingly ineffective in my experience.
I talk to brand x reps at the Blade Show every year, and it's like they've never seen their kiln in use. They told me to start with a cold oven, and set for low ramp. Like I said, it's like they know absolutely nothing. Nothing!
Really? Start with a cold kiln? So I have to wait several hours for the next blade or next cycle? Idiots. Everyone knows that's not just impracticable, it's dead wrong. Always start with your kiln at temp. The faster you can heat blades the better. That's why salt pots are much better, but they are expensive, take a lot of space, and they're very dangerous. Few people use them for those reasons. Induction heating is virtually exclusively Industrial, and the only other method I know of.
Paragon, on the other hand, shows Interior dimensions, so they aren't trying to fool anyone. Coils in the ceiling work PERFECTLY. There are coils on the sides too, but I don't think they make too much difference. I always made sure to rotate the knives on each heat cycle in brand x, because I know it has to make some difference when the blades are only 1.5" from the coils. With the Paragon, it doesn't matter, since it's twice as wide and twice as long. Height is the same. The price difference was negligible for me, but now the 2x bigger, 220V, much heavier duty, Paragon is about 40% more expensive. I don't know the price difference on similar size kilns, but brand x had to lower their price a Bunch. They still don't put coils on the ceiling anyway, so it's positively a no-brainer, unless you do small knives one at a time.
I never would have thought size mattered so much, but it's Very Clear now. The Paragon works perfectly, and I only use brand x for tempering. I don't mind if the tips are a point tougher (softer). I couldn't care less how much electricity it takes, I just want my knives exactly the same temperature when I'm running critical cycles.
I was totally blown away the very first time I used the Paragon. Seeing the exact same color from tip to tang was Shocking!