12-19-2017, 09:56 PM
Mr EOU, when I spoke recently about learning something of significance about the burr, and how I thought it related to something said about "always being on the burr side", and Mr KG said something about the "base of the burr", this looks to be what I was talking about.
If you can see any sort of aberration, I mean ANYTHING that doesn't look like a perfect scratch pattern to The Edge Of The Edge, that's what I call "the base of the burr".
You're right, you can't get rid of the base of the burr without "grinding it off". The trick is to remove the base of the burr *without making a burr on the other side*.
There are two ways I do this. I make one pass on a 140 grit Atoma and examine with the 60x mini microscope. This is sharpening at the "speed of smell", and that's how I totally maximize tooth. The other is to Control the rate of abrasion with very fine (but very sharp) abrasive on a Kally with a leather belt.
When I said that I don't think you can do that with a grinder, it's because y'all don't use compounds. Also, you can't slow the abrasion down to 20 SFPM, like honing by hand.
It takes Way more passes on a stone than one would think to eliminate Everything except a clean scratch pattern. When I said something like, "once you eliminate the base of the burr, there is no more burr", that's what I meant. The off-burr side has a perfect scratch pattern all the way to the EOTE. It has to. That's what makes the burr on the burr side.
Now, here's why it doesn't work with a clean leather belt- you have no abrasion going on at all. Leather is too soft to affect steel in any meaningful way, other than to Slightly bend Very Thin steel. You can't remove anything. You can't abrade the steel. You need something harder than steel to do that.
That's what compounds are for. There are abrasive particles in the compound that are harder than steel, so they scratch some steel off. They cut into the steel, and leave a scratch pattern, even though it can be very fine.
That's why it's super quick and easy for me to remove the burr with a Kally and poly diamond compound, and that's why it's impossible with bare leather or a clean cotton buff. There will never be a scratch pattern, since there can't be any scratching going on.
Put some poly diamond particles on the leather, then run the burr side against the leather. You will get a scratch pattern all the way to the EOTE. You will remove the "base of the burr", or whatever you want to call that "shiny line" or "line of crud" as Mr Mike put it.
You don't have to put the compound on a belt, you can put it on a leather hone, like the ones I sent out, with 16 micron PDP compound on them. They deburr perfectly for me.
I have no idea why that didn't work for everyone. When I was down in Mansfield with Mr Rupert, his hone worked on the S35VN of my Umnumzan, just as I reported when I got home. It's like it can't NOT work, if you understand what you're trying to accomplish.
My guess is since y'all aren't used to the speed of smell, you just didn't think anything was happening. If you were alternating sides of the blade before you had a scratch pattern all the way to TEOTE on the burr side, you were wasting half your time on the side that DID have a scratch pattern all the way to TEOTE.
Oh yeah, one more thing. I also said it can FEEL like you flipped the burr, without flipping the WHOLE burr. That is another trait of of not affecting the "base" of the burr. There is WAY more steel in the burr than you think.
With plain leather, it makes no difference if you're using the smooth side or the rough side, because the rough side is the same hardness as the smooth side, and neither side is hard enough to remove Any steel. At any rate, you will Never see a scratch pattern from leather.
No scratchy= no toothy= no sharpy.
Don't forget, the burr side is Not the same as the other side of the edge.
If this doesn't make sense, and just makes you mad, please refer to the appropriate title of this thread. This is nothing but MHO at this time.
If you can see any sort of aberration, I mean ANYTHING that doesn't look like a perfect scratch pattern to The Edge Of The Edge, that's what I call "the base of the burr".
You're right, you can't get rid of the base of the burr without "grinding it off". The trick is to remove the base of the burr *without making a burr on the other side*.
There are two ways I do this. I make one pass on a 140 grit Atoma and examine with the 60x mini microscope. This is sharpening at the "speed of smell", and that's how I totally maximize tooth. The other is to Control the rate of abrasion with very fine (but very sharp) abrasive on a Kally with a leather belt.
When I said that I don't think you can do that with a grinder, it's because y'all don't use compounds. Also, you can't slow the abrasion down to 20 SFPM, like honing by hand.
It takes Way more passes on a stone than one would think to eliminate Everything except a clean scratch pattern. When I said something like, "once you eliminate the base of the burr, there is no more burr", that's what I meant. The off-burr side has a perfect scratch pattern all the way to the EOTE. It has to. That's what makes the burr on the burr side.
Now, here's why it doesn't work with a clean leather belt- you have no abrasion going on at all. Leather is too soft to affect steel in any meaningful way, other than to Slightly bend Very Thin steel. You can't remove anything. You can't abrade the steel. You need something harder than steel to do that.
That's what compounds are for. There are abrasive particles in the compound that are harder than steel, so they scratch some steel off. They cut into the steel, and leave a scratch pattern, even though it can be very fine.
That's why it's super quick and easy for me to remove the burr with a Kally and poly diamond compound, and that's why it's impossible with bare leather or a clean cotton buff. There will never be a scratch pattern, since there can't be any scratching going on.
Put some poly diamond particles on the leather, then run the burr side against the leather. You will get a scratch pattern all the way to the EOTE. You will remove the "base of the burr", or whatever you want to call that "shiny line" or "line of crud" as Mr Mike put it.
You don't have to put the compound on a belt, you can put it on a leather hone, like the ones I sent out, with 16 micron PDP compound on them. They deburr perfectly for me.
I have no idea why that didn't work for everyone. When I was down in Mansfield with Mr Rupert, his hone worked on the S35VN of my Umnumzan, just as I reported when I got home. It's like it can't NOT work, if you understand what you're trying to accomplish.
My guess is since y'all aren't used to the speed of smell, you just didn't think anything was happening. If you were alternating sides of the blade before you had a scratch pattern all the way to TEOTE on the burr side, you were wasting half your time on the side that DID have a scratch pattern all the way to TEOTE.
Oh yeah, one more thing. I also said it can FEEL like you flipped the burr, without flipping the WHOLE burr. That is another trait of of not affecting the "base" of the burr. There is WAY more steel in the burr than you think.
With plain leather, it makes no difference if you're using the smooth side or the rough side, because the rough side is the same hardness as the smooth side, and neither side is hard enough to remove Any steel. At any rate, you will Never see a scratch pattern from leather.
No scratchy= no toothy= no sharpy.
Don't forget, the burr side is Not the same as the other side of the edge.
If this doesn't make sense, and just makes you mad, please refer to the appropriate title of this thread. This is nothing but MHO at this time.