07-23-2017, 10:26 AM
I'll have to try to be brief, Mr. Grepper. I'm sorry, I'm having trouble keeping up with you. I'm producing some mighty fine cutlery though!
I use a stock KN100, and I only measure the weight added to the piston. I didn't know there was a different way. I've actually gotten down to single digits, but I know you are right, stones and hones do make an enormous difference. Probably all the difference there is between us. If I had one suggestion it would be to get an Atoma.
Now that I'm becoming used to finishing on the Atoma 140, I'm actually pretty surprised by how quickly mega-tooth loses it's initial bite. It doesn't get worthless slippery like a polished edge, but I'm seeing a pretty quick drop off, and that's with the best carbon steels, like M4 and my 52100, and one of the newest, best stainless steels, S35VN.
I think most others would say that's to be expected. Over the centuries that people have been sharpening with stones, it's always been fairly accepted that refinement leads to longevity. I think we've gone WAY too far in that direction, and quit looking at the practicality of coarse stones.
IMHO, there is a sweet spot somewhere around 400-1000 grit. It could go down as far as about 150 grit, and up to 2000 grit, mainly depending on the steel. For the most part, softer stainless will benefit from coarse grit, while carbon tool steel is strong enough to hold a keener edge.
The thing I'm most wary of with coarse grit is how much metal I remove per sharpening. Especially on a belt, and especially with soft stainless. I can grind a butcher knife down to a paring knife pretty quickly at 120 grit. 400 grit is a huge difference. At least you can't watch your blade disappear before your eyes.
All in all, I will be happy to keep working in the 140-350 grit range. I'm not done by any means. I just received a couple really nice water stones in 150 and 325 grit, but I can already tell the 150 will have a tough time keeping up with the Atoma. The 325 grit stone is pretty awesome though. Nubatama stones are becoming my standard equipment, along with Atomas. I have entire sets of Choseras and Shaptons, but 400 and 500 grits are my coarsest, and I've been ok with that until recently.
I know what I was thinking when I was talking about the ratio of refinement to BESS scores, but I don't think it's as simple as dividing the score by the grit or whatever. We could probably figure something out though, because low scores with low grits are significant. IMHO, 60 grit is just too coarse for anything I've tested so far.
The next question will relate to edge retention. I think I can guarantee there will be a difference between carbon and stainless steels, but it will take some work to quantify it.
I really like cutting rope for edge testing. The cheap 1/2" manila or hemp rope is perfect. Paired with a BESS machine, you can measure initial sharpness, make 100 cuts, and remeasure. That should be a good way to figure edge retention at different grits. I'm certainly interested in seeing some numbers.
I'll also be revisiting coarse CBN and diamond compounds during the Sturgis Rally in a couple weeks. I can hardly wait to try my new, souped up Viel!
I use a stock KN100, and I only measure the weight added to the piston. I didn't know there was a different way. I've actually gotten down to single digits, but I know you are right, stones and hones do make an enormous difference. Probably all the difference there is between us. If I had one suggestion it would be to get an Atoma.
Now that I'm becoming used to finishing on the Atoma 140, I'm actually pretty surprised by how quickly mega-tooth loses it's initial bite. It doesn't get worthless slippery like a polished edge, but I'm seeing a pretty quick drop off, and that's with the best carbon steels, like M4 and my 52100, and one of the newest, best stainless steels, S35VN.
I think most others would say that's to be expected. Over the centuries that people have been sharpening with stones, it's always been fairly accepted that refinement leads to longevity. I think we've gone WAY too far in that direction, and quit looking at the practicality of coarse stones.
IMHO, there is a sweet spot somewhere around 400-1000 grit. It could go down as far as about 150 grit, and up to 2000 grit, mainly depending on the steel. For the most part, softer stainless will benefit from coarse grit, while carbon tool steel is strong enough to hold a keener edge.
The thing I'm most wary of with coarse grit is how much metal I remove per sharpening. Especially on a belt, and especially with soft stainless. I can grind a butcher knife down to a paring knife pretty quickly at 120 grit. 400 grit is a huge difference. At least you can't watch your blade disappear before your eyes.
All in all, I will be happy to keep working in the 140-350 grit range. I'm not done by any means. I just received a couple really nice water stones in 150 and 325 grit, but I can already tell the 150 will have a tough time keeping up with the Atoma. The 325 grit stone is pretty awesome though. Nubatama stones are becoming my standard equipment, along with Atomas. I have entire sets of Choseras and Shaptons, but 400 and 500 grits are my coarsest, and I've been ok with that until recently.
I know what I was thinking when I was talking about the ratio of refinement to BESS scores, but I don't think it's as simple as dividing the score by the grit or whatever. We could probably figure something out though, because low scores with low grits are significant. IMHO, 60 grit is just too coarse for anything I've tested so far.
The next question will relate to edge retention. I think I can guarantee there will be a difference between carbon and stainless steels, but it will take some work to quantify it.
I really like cutting rope for edge testing. The cheap 1/2" manila or hemp rope is perfect. Paired with a BESS machine, you can measure initial sharpness, make 100 cuts, and remeasure. That should be a good way to figure edge retention at different grits. I'm certainly interested in seeing some numbers.
I'll also be revisiting coarse CBN and diamond compounds during the Sturgis Rally in a couple weeks. I can hardly wait to try my new, souped up Viel!