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New products - Edge Lab
#1
https://www.edgeonup.com/Edge-Lab.html
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#2
Thanks for the segue SHARPCO regarding our new products E LAB A & B. We'll have plenty to say about these two new products in the future because there is a lot to say. While edge sharpness continues to be the foundation of edge performance, there is simply no denying that 85% of all cuts made in the world today are slicing cuts. It only makes sense then that our latest series of instruments would address both the sharpness and slicing attributes of edges. The combination of these two testing means is very powerful and we promise, quite exciting.

We have posted the Edge LAB page to the Products Showcase page http://bessex.com/forum/showthread.php?t...51#pid5651 and provided additional links to our website at edgeonup.com. As I said at the beginning of this post, there's going to be a lot to discuss so we'll be adding plenty of pictures, videos and discoveries to the mix as this product introduction continues. Buckle up friends - you're going to be amazed!
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#3
(04-05-2021, 05:43 PM)Mike Brubacher Wrote: Thanks for the segue SHARPCO regarding our new products E LAB A & B. We'll have plenty to say about these two new products in the future because there is a lot to say. While edge sharpness continues to be the foundation of edge performance, there is simply no denying that 85% of all cuts made in the world today are slicing cuts. It only makes sense then that our latest series of instruments would address both the sharpness and slicing attributes of edges. The combination of these two testing means is very powerful and we promise, quite exciting.

We have posted the Edge LAB page to the Products Showcase page http://bessex.com/forum/showthread.php?t...51#pid5651 and provided additional links to our website at edgeonup.com. As I said at the beginning of this post, there's going to be a lot to discuss so we'll be adding plenty of pictures, videos and discoveries to the mix as this product introduction continues. Buckle up friends - you're going to be amazed!

Thank you for comment, Mike.
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#4
Wow. Two amazing new products and a freshly minted, shiny new website too. Congrats Mr. Mike!
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#5
Thanks Grepper!
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#6
Hi Mike,

I've watched your videos about the Edge Lab with much interest.
In one of them, the video "Sharpness Testing With Edge Lab" you show sharpness score on ATF with the BESS certified line of the same knife that was used on the slice test media, and these two scores differ a lot, which is expected of course, since the test media is not the same.
How are these two related?
How do you interpret the Edge Lab numbers?
What do a sharp and a dull knife score on Edge Lab? Do you have a separate sharpness scale for Edge Lab?

Have you thought of calibrating the Edge Lab to display numbers close to the BESS certified media?

Thank you.
http://knifeGrinders.com.au
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#7
In the most previous post KG asked the following questions and they are good ones. The questions, in italics, and the answers:


I've watched your videos about the Edge Lab with much interest.
In one of them, the video "Sharpness Testing With Edge Lab" you show sharpness score on ATF with the BESS certified line of the same knife that was used on the slice test media, and these two scores differ a lot, which is expected of course, since the test media is not the same.
How are these two related?

In the case that you are referring to KG, we demonstrate how E LAB can take ordinary sharpness tests (just as a PT50 SERIES tester does) and of course the process is much the same between the two different styles of testers. Then, later in the video, we use the same procedure (push cut) and the SLCF fixture loaded with SLCTM20 Slice Test Media just to demonstrate that it can, as an option, be done. In the video, the Max force reading with the SLC fixture and Slice test media was approximately  5X that of the ATF and TM02 result. With the scene setting out of the way KG, I'll answer the question best I can at this time. There is clearly going to be a relationship here KG but we haven't defined it yet and here's why: In the case of TM02 test media, edge geometry plays somewhere between zero and  minimal, role in the measured result  of edge sharpness tests. When push cutting through Slice Test Media, we feel that edge geometry has a significant effect on the measured result and that effect is readily apparent when collecting and graphing the push cut data through Slice TM. Yes, if the edge had been sharper, the force required to push cut the Slice TM would have been less just as it would have been less using BESS TM but correctly attributing how much of that force can be assigned to geometry and how much to edge sharpness is a task that still lays before us and our customer contributors. Please keep in mind that Slice TM was designed to be sliced, not push cut so that portion of the video was designed only as an interesting aside to the primary thrust of the tutorial.



How do you interpret the Edge Lab numbers?

Using the simplest denominator -  Average Force. The average force is calculated automatically at the conclusion of each test.   Edges and blades with superior slicing efficacy require less force to complete a given test than inferior ones. 

What do a sharp and a dull knife score on Edge Lab?  

As you know KG there is no clear way to define "dull" really but as you may have seen in the "Manual (handheld)" tutorial our "grocery store knife" (BESS 200 apprx.)
required about 130 grams less force to complete the test than the  "knife in need of sharpening" I brought from home. The maximum force required during the test also had about that same spread. If this helps - A DE razor blade requires about 70 grams average force to complete a slicing test but even a DE blade has some geometry contribution. If you drill down and look only at the slicing inception (when the edge first  penetrates (slices) the test media the number is - guess what- about 50. 

Do you have a separate sharpness scale for Edge Lab?

That's going to be a process with BESSU KG. I would expect first we'll develop an informal one and then, hopefully a new BESS Certified scale.

Have you thought of calibrating the Edge Lab to display numbers close to the BESS certified media?
\
Hadn't thought about that but we will and thanks again for the questions KG..

By the way, and speaking to all now, I have posted all of the EDGE LAB video links to the BESS Exchange "Product Videos & Documentation" section.
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#8
Appreciate your patience with me, Mike.
Now it is clear even to me that the Edge-Lab tests cutting performance of the blade, not the sharpness at the edge apex as PT50.
http://knifeGrinders.com.au
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#9
Mike, do I read the E-LAB manual right, that it keeps in memory only data from the last test, and if we do not "send" it to the PC and save, the next test will overwrite the data?
If no, how many tests can it keep in the memory? - the specs do not mention it

Also I cannot visualise how one can test slicing stuff other than the Slice Test Media, like the manilla rope or cardboard - a demo video would be helpful.
http://knifeGrinders.com.au
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#10
KG, I'll respond to both of your most recent posts here:

"Now it is clear even to me that the Edge-Lab tests cutting performance of the blade, not the sharpness at the edge apex as PT50."

That's about the size of it KG if we are talking about testing in SLC (Slice) mode. Of course both E LAB instruments are capable of taking edge sharpness tests just as the PT50 Series instruments do but with one added feature; the results of edge sharpness tests can be transmitted to a PC and saved in a file. 

"Mike, do I read the E-LAB manual right, that it keeps in memory only data from the last test, and if we do not "send" it to the PC and save, the next test will overwrite the data?

If no, how many tests can it keep in the memory? - the specs do not mention it"


The E LAB manual is still a work in progress so I won't go back to it and then quote  - I'll just tell you here how saving test data files works.  When a computer has been connected to the E LAB instrument, the data collected from any one test is logged and stored at the PC - not in the instrument. At the conclusion of any test the user is given the option to save that data (and/or graph) to disc. Previously saved test data will not be overwritten or lost unless  the user elects to delete the file that he/she previously created. The potential number of test files saved is only limited by the capacity of the user's hard drive. We must have really done a poor job of explaining this in the manual because I know that you understand computer functions as well  we do.

"Also I cannot visualize how one can test slicing stuff other than the Slice Test Media, like the manila rope or cardboard - a demo video would be helpful."

And a very straight forward experiment it would be KG! Using our SLCP Slice Plate accessory, one would simply clamp (using the Slice Plate clamping system) a section of rope down to the Slice Plate and conduct the test. You could pull slice it, push slice it, or pull and push slice it within the same test and all the data will be there for you to examine. I demonstrated the Slice Plate accessory https://youtu.be/5euSsjmjpd0 in one of our E LAB videos by slicing a zucchini. Substitute the rope (or cardboard) for the zucchini and you're in business!  
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