Old sharpening methods...

[Edgepal]

Bud, obsidian and flint edges are veey much sharper then steel edges and also much harder. There is also many fine grit hard stones that was used. You must also understand that stoneage people have something we sont have - time. They xould work dor weeks, perhaps month, to peoduce something.

Stoneage people was as intelligent as we are today. The big different between US and them is that we have learn a more advanced tecnuiqe and we developt a lot of different materials. They was expert on stones and what stone was the best stone to what. They also was experts about hiwbtobtreat this stones, how ro chip of material and hiw to grind them.

They understod things many people dont understand today, for example they grinded thwir edges. Not ro make them sharper, they grinded very sharp edges to get a better retention onnthe edge so that they could use their tools long time before they need a new edge = they grind their edges duller - not sharper.

A edge shall only be as sharp it need to be dor it purpouse. They understod this for 6000 years ago - but today it is forgotten. We still try to get edges as sharp as possible in my world edges must be balanced between sharpness and retention so that they hold long time to work with.

Thomas

[Ken S]

Thomas,

What an interesting post. You really make me think.

Many years ago, I attended a lecture at my local library. The speaker, who had grown up in the town, had become an expert on Native American culture. Among other things, he had lived in a tee pee in North Dakota for several years. Among his house guests there was Buckminster Fuller.

The topic of the lecture was the life of a typical Shoshone warrior. He came wearing native dress. He showed the audience his medicine pouch, carried by every warrior. In addition to herbal medicine, his pouch contained pieces of flint. He explained that the flint could be fractured to reveal a fresh, extremely sharp edge. This extremely sharp edge was also sterile. The old warriors had much wisdom.

I have noticed in working with tree trimmers, mechanics, maintenance men, and other not primarily computer type workers, that they generally have an uncommon skill in making things work. This comes from thoughtful work habits. I think today's computer technology is amazing. I also continue to be equally amazed by the wisdom of long ago.

Thank you for sharing your post, Thomas.

Ken

[EOU]

"People today thinks that edes shall be as sharp as possible and use shapness as a meassuring how good knifes work - traditionals say that edges shall only be as sharp they need to be for theres purpouse, not shaper then that."

You know Thomas, you shouldn't be surprised to learn someday just how correct this statement may turn out to be. We have produced some very interesting results with our edge rolling test stand that seem to support your comments. It's too early to talk about specifics just yet but you and those "traditionals" might just be on to something that can be proven to be correct.

[Edgepal]

Ken, when you live in the wilderness during long time with no electricity and only your knife and axe to help you - you starts to very innovative. This becouse you must solve problems with the tools you have together with your brain.

I lived 6 month at the tine every year during 20 years with the Sami people in the high mountains above the arctic circle and live in a kåta (Hogan) made of birch wood, water prof by birch bark and windproof by bogturf outside the birch bark. Most of the time we have a open fire on the floor and later a kitchen stove of iron. That was my home and their I rice my family and my three sons. And - there I learned how to use knifes, how to sharpen them - and what happens to their edges during 6 month off daily free hand sharpening.

Allready then, durning the sixties, i started to think about how I shall construct a simple but good sharpening tool that could Sharpen and maintain both flat and convex edges and with free sharpening angle. I made one for my self, then i made one to a friend, one of his friend see it and whanted one - and I am still on that road...today I get orders from all over the world and I sill do not market my tools, I have only my homepage and I am happy with that.
I baptized my first tool to "Edge" and from that come the name EdgePal.

EOU,
I hope that you, with todays tecnuiqe, can tecnical prove dor todays people what your forefathers have know and understod for thousends of years = an edge shall only be as sharp it need to be dor its purpouse.

IF all knifes back in time was razor sharp it was no needs for razors, ans razors are thousends of years old and common to find kn graves allready from the beonze age - so - razors was needed - and knifes was not razor sharp.

If you can scientificly profe that knifes shall only he as sharp they need to be for their purpouse - I wish you luck to explain it for todays city people that is 90 % of the population. I have a little experiance about that what ever I say kn this matter - most people do bot belive it or understand it.

Thomas

[Edgepal]

   
This is my knife belt, or was - it have become to small for me now....it have shrinked...my wife say that my stommac are bigger now,mbut I do not think she is honest...

This belt is a normal Sami knife belt used by the north Sami people traditional costymes. It can varius some, but not much. Some belt tells what family the man that carry it comes from (by its design).

I carry two knifes, the Sami chopper, a standard Sami knife - and also a small engraving knife. During the winter I also carry a traditional thing (capsuel) made if antler that hold needle and so on so I can repair fabriks i wear on the spot they failur. This "capsuel" are named "nalhus". (Needle house).

Knife belts are very practical when living in the wilderness, the knifes are allways there and easy to reach, the belt are easy to take off when needed, when using lasso it keep the lassos force from your body,mand so on.

Thomas

[Edgepal]

    Have you ever thougt about that a oval grinding wheel sharpen convex edges when you hold the same angle against the oval grinding wheel?



We humans learn new things every day as long as we live - if we so not turn that gift off...

Thomas

[Edgepal]

https://ibb.co/0QQpGKY

I found a picture of my needle house

This is a very practical thing to have hanging in your belt, especially during the winter when dammage cloth can kill you in cold temperatures. They are easy to make in antler or other materials - and correct made they keep everything inside dry.

We have for there days now minus 33 centigrades and I hope that it soon shall be a little warmer - but - we have no mosquitos now, that is good!

Thomas

[Rupert Lucius]

Thomas

Thank you for sharing the photos - the oval wheel is very interesting.

First time for me to see one - never gave the oval any thought.

Your photos and writings continue to educate -

As always, again

thank you

Rupert

[Ken S]

Thomas,

I listened to an online interview with Robin Lee, the present head of the Canadian Company, Lee Valley, and son of its late founder, Leonard Lee. He noted a change of buying habits of high end tool purchasers. In the past, someone would buy a good tool and put it to work. Robin Lee noted that today, many buyers will purchase a high end tool, measure it with a Chinese electronic caliper, and put it on a shelf.

His father, Leonard Lee, made the observation in his sharpening book that most woodworkers do not need to sharpen their tools beyond a 4000 grit waterstone, although finer stones are plentiful. Leonard Lee's understanding of the sharpening process was deep and wise enough to realize that hyper sharpening was rarely necessary. His understanding had caught up with our ancient forefathers.

I am pleased you are sharing your insights; you make me think and grow.

Ken

[Edgepal]

I polish sometimes, very rare, edges when I sharpen knifes for coroners and sushi chefs, they both need poished edges that also are scarry sharp.

When I live outdoors I normally end up my sharpening with a 25 micron diamond sharpener and then a finer ceramic sharpener sliding across the edge 2-3 times. Duringvthe sixties and seventies i used stones and ghe grit of those stones was unknown but it worked for me. I used natural stones when I forgot my sharpener at home. When diamond sharpaners come I have one hanging in my knife belt. It was a red plastic EzeLap sharpener, I do not remember the grit

I remember that I liked the diamond sharpeners when they come and they changed the way I sharpen knifes - and for the first time (for me) i have a sharpener that did not change it shapes for me, that was a big thing and it leads me to new thougts about a shatpening tool that could sharpen both flat and convex edges with free sharpening angles.

As I wrote above, old knife knowledge have dissapeare,, so also knife understanding ans how knifes works. More and more fantasy knifes come in to the market with wonderful cool design - and people by them becose they looks cool. Tanto tips, recurved edges and so on, the type if edges and rios used in Japan and India in tropic climate - and people cannot sharpen them, "how ro sharpen a recurved edge with a flat sharpener is a common question on knifes forums and fairs today... Eye-sweat design - but very bad outdoor knifes - and we are back to officedesk survivers and designers.

Then, we humanas have all a bad side (bad today, good dor our evolution earlyer). When we know a little - we think we know it all - and start to use our knowledge and we feel superial all other people. That makes young people in cars to killingen selfs in accidents about 2-3 years after they started to drive. It was the same genetic genes that forced US humans to develop and give us more advanced technology.

When I am on fairs many people show me knifes that they say sont work for them "shelf warmer" we call them. Often cool design,never thick blade, crazy edgeprofiles and edge angles above 45 degrees total edge are common, small tiny knifes are also common = knifes people have bought that have a nice design - but bad functionallity...

Most people i Scandinavia by a Mora knife - and they allways work. Many people think that Mora knifes are "boring" and they bye good looking knifes instead - that do not work at all....

Then, once again - 90 % of people lives in citys today and they do not work in materials their forefathers did - or materials there is outdoors. City people needs city people knife design to get knifes that work for them. And - those knifes work bad outddors. They work to "survive" a day with barberque outddors in the Forest - but not so much moore.
It is also city people that by so called "surviving knifes" with cool designs - becouse they like to survive outdoors...

In reality, to survive outdoors needs knowledge, in first hand knowledge of weather and wind so that you never come in a bad life depending situation in first hand. That the most important knowledge to survive.

Next knowlege is to know, and understand : keep warm, dry - and never go hungry. If you follow that you will survive most weather ans winds outsoors.

In Scansinavia we dont have problem with wild animals becouse the wild animals are more afraid of US then we are afraid if them, we have bears and wolfes and so on - but we have hunted them for thousends of years so they know we are dangerus ( i have big respect for moose becouse they have hunted me three times and it takes around 3 houers before they have up). I have meet bears many times and we both change directions in a respektfull way and pass eachother politly. Knowledge to not provoce wild animals is nice to have also. It is nice to know when to back of to avoid attacks...and how to back of...

We humans are creative and curious and we have a builder Gene inside US I think. We have use knifes and axes ao long time, more then a million years, so we have those tools in our genes. Also when we do bot need them - and becouse of this we allways like to by them..."they could be nice to have" way if thinking - but I think that is our genes talkning

Thomas