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+--- Thread: The straight razor that can't cut test media (/showthread.php?tid=475)
RE: The straight razor that can't cut test media - EOU - 06-04-2019
Thanks much for the recognition of our efforts here Lutejones, the help with our straight razor questions, and your making the effort to contribute here.
RE: The straight razor that can't cut test media - Mark Reich - 06-06-2019
I don't know why I can get my Japanese kitchen knives sharper than my straight razors, but the straight razors still shave just fine, and a lot easier than using a kitchen knife.
One thing I don't quite understand is why the benchmark for razor blades, a Feather double edge, only measures BESS 50 straight out of the wrapper. Even without shaving, 12-24 hours later, it loses a significant level of sharpness. I don't remember how much it loses just to oxidation, but I wonder how much they lose after a shave. Do guys have to use a new blade every shave, or is there much difference between a brand new blade and a used one? I mean is there much difference between a fresh BESS 50 and say... BESS 75?
I have never, in 35 years of growing whiskers, shaved regularly, so I am genuinely a poor candidate for razor answers. I used to use disposable razors, and I would normally get at least half a dozen shaves out of one. I'm wondering... how many shaves does a disposable blade yield, and what do you suppose the BESS sharpness level of tolerability is?
I do not put forth much effort on my straight razor at all. I take it to the stones once or twice/year. Normally I just give it half a dozen passes per side on 1µ PDP, and another half dozen on 1µ CBN. That keeps it at BESS 75, and I'm satisfied with that. Is there really much difference between a new Feather at BESS 50 and something at BESS 75?
For the guys who get their straight razors really sharp, what level of sharpness do you maintain, and what does it take to maintain your level of comfort?
Thank you for any insight.
RE: The straight razor that can't cut test media - EOU - 06-07-2019
Good post Mark. We're with you with regard to shaving. Our disposable razors don't get disposed of until after a fair number of uses. We tested the blades in a standard disposable razor some time ago and they test just like a common DE blade, 50. We wouldn't doubt that they are double that after a week of use. There is little doubt that there is a detectable difference after 10 or so shaves.
Our mutual friend Komitadjie tested a number of DE blades after use with his KN100 some years ago and detected an immediate decline in sharpness but don't remember the specifics. Hopefully one of our straight edge users will bail in with some information here.
One advantage that straight edge users have that the rest of us don't enjoy is frequent stropping. Stropping has to extend the useful life of the edge in our opinion.
RE: The straight razor that can't cut test media - Mark Reich - 06-21-2019
Got a new straight razor from Amazon. I wanted one that was "shave ready", and this one was clearly described as such. Of course the steel was a priority, and naturally I wanted carbon steel. I read all 150 reviews. 65% were 4 and 5 star, and quite a few mentioned this razor being well received on forums. Most of the lower reviews noted the cheap plastic handle, which I couldn't possibly care less about. I wanted all the blade I could get for a paltry $35.
Out of the box sharpness was OK I guess. The lowest reading was 84, and the highest was 137. Half a dozen were in the 100-125 range, but half a dozen more were over 300. Then a few total failures left a nice half circle in the edge and measured >400. I was pretty disappointed. I did not expect carbon steel to fail on media.
I went ahead and shaved with it. Actually, I took a shower, then measured the razor, which I obviously should have done first. Not a big deal to me though. I cold shave at least half the time. I don't own a brush to make lather. I do use shaving soap, but only enough to know my face is fully covered. I have a goatee, so I basically only shave my cheeks and neck. I make one pass, all straight down, and that's it.
Just to be understood, I don't fool around with Anything when I shave. That's why I use a straight razor. It is Fast! I use a kleenex to wipe all the soapy stubble off the razor 4-5 times, and throw it in the garbage which is a lot more efficient than rinsing and cleaning the sink. It's never occurred to me to time it, but I'm guessing under a minute from applying soap to rinsing and drying my face.
So the shave wasn't bad, even with dents in the blade. Definitely a little burn, but surprisingly close. Here's the good part... The razor got sharper. No kidding. My first two measurements were 72 and 67. That was close to the toe, which I don't use very much, but every measurement was < 90, except for the ones that were over 150. I didn't finish those. If it got to 150 I figured the edge was failing and I bailed.
Tune in next week when I try another razor.
If you shave with a straight speak up. This isn't a contest, it's simple truth in a quest for knowledge.
RE: The straight razor that can't cut test media - Mike Brubacher - 06-21-2019
Well that's interesting stuff Mark and appreciate your taking the time to look into it. The question I have is why the edge dents sometimes and not others. I have theories but wouldn't want to predispose anyone to those theories. I know that you are capable of sharpening to levels well below those measured when you first received the razor. I'll be very interested in seeing how the razor performs once you have sharpened it. It's difficult to imagine that the sharper after use component of your test doesn't represent at least one clue to the issue or issues as the case may be.
We know that common DE razor blades measuring 25 - 50 never dent so there is something to be learned here and perhaps would be of benefit to straight razor users everywhere. It would seem that a straight razor edge that measures 25 - 50 and never dents might be preferable to a straight razor edge that measures 25 - 50 and sometimes dents. Then again, in the world of whiskers, it might not make any difference at all.
RE: The straight razor that can't cut test media - Mark Reich - 06-22-2019
The only thing I might contribute the sharper post shaving reading to would be that a layer of oxide was worn off during shaving. I probably didn't describe it thoroughly enough. The toe and heel were sharpest pre-shaving, and didn't dent as often. I still got the sharpest readings in the same places, so I'd say the measurements really didn't drop as dramatically as it may have sounded. Also, it's impossible to say whether the edge was denting slightly on Any of the higher pre-shave measurements.
From my limited experience, it seems like my beard doesn't really dull a straight razor much at all. In other words, steel trumps whiskers handily. We know oxidation is a significant factor in all blades. I believe KG found the same thing in stainless knives, and it was pretty significant.
Edge failure rate on this razor was at least 50%. I don't know why the middle of the blade suffered the highest rate, but I didn't get many good measurements post shave, and practically none in the middle section. I think the major cause of edge failure is due to the thinness of the blade. It only measures .008 behind the edge!
I think it's fair to say human error could have played a significant role. I was more in a hurry than concentrating on perfect measuring technique. I have to admit I haven't had much practice on my PT50 in quite a while. I can imagine the margin for error on a straight razor could be very small.
I'm going to scrub the dents out of the blade, then add a layer of tape to the spine when I refine the edge. I'll go back to using the KN-100 type razor machine when I measure this razor again, then I'll see if I get the same readings on the PT50.
RE: The straight razor that can't cut test media - Jan - 06-23-2019
Recently I received a special antique straight razor. The donator told me it was used for shaving moustache.
Jan
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RE: The straight razor that can't cut test media - Mike Brubacher - 06-24-2019
That is indeed a special piece Jan! I would imagine that it works by removing the user's upper lip.
RE: The straight razor that can't cut test media - Jan - 06-25-2019
Yes Mike, you are correct! This antique straight razor was completely destroyed. I received it for experimenting.
Jan
RE: The straight razor that can't cut test media - Mark Reich - 06-28-2019
Mr. Jan, great to hear from you! I think you may be more familiar with straight razors than anyone, and I would love to have your input.
I don't know what razors have the best steel. In fact, I hardly know anything about razors. I have a few, I know how to get them sharp enough to use, and that's it.
I don't have time to spend on razor forums. From my limited experience, they aren't exactly geared toward neophytes, or "recreational" users who don't shave very seriously or regularly.
I have all the right equipment for razors. I have sets of Chosera and Shapton Glass stones to 10K, and Shapton Pros at 15K and 30K (or 16K and 32K depending on what grit 1µ is). I have tons of compounds and leather hones, but there are so many things I don't understand.
Are straight razors predisposed to failing on BESS media with their incredibly thin edges? How long does it take to get an edge on a razor, and what does it take to maintain that sharpness? Are there any questions that have easy answers?
Thank you for anything you can shed a little light on.