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+--- Thread: Metalworking fluid for CBN wheels (/showthread.php?tid=247)
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Metalworking fluid for CBN wheels - KnifeGrinders - 01-13-2018
Since woodturnerswonders.com had voided warranty for use of its CBN wheels with water, I've been looking for a substitute, and finally found a metalworking fluid that doesn't turn milky and remains transparent so that the edge and burr can be watched while grinding (I use CBN wheels with Tormek).
It is Metallium XDP2000
made in Australia by Excision
http://www.excision.com.au/-48
I bought 1L for myself from https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/S090A but it is also available on eBay.
Completely soluble in water - added to water 1:20
Long Lasting Stable Coolant
Premium Rust Protector
Extends Tool Life
Antibacterial
Antifungal
Chlorine, Nitrate & Silicone Free
Easy on Hands
Low Foam
RE: Metalworking fluid for CBN wheels - Ken S - 01-13-2018
KG,
Interesting post. I remember when you bought your first CBN. You were the first person I have known using CBN on the Tormek (although the sales pitch mentioned thousands of sales to Tormek users.)
With the review I did, I used my CBN wheel both wet and dry. My steel wheel and steel reducing bushing quickly started to rust with plain water. I tried adding the recommended dilution (1:25) of Honerite Gold. It solved my rust problem.
I contacted Bora, the parent company and, thinking of you, asked for contact information for their Australian distributor. I called the toll free number and, to my surprise, reached Affinity Tool in Michigan. Affinity is the US importer for both Bora and Tormek. Sadly, Australia is off the grid for Honerite Gold, which is good for the Australian company!
I like using CBN wet with the Tormek, both with the T4 and T7. CBN runs cooler than conventional grinding wheels. Used wet with the Tormek, it runs very cool and dust free. It cuts very well. After having used CBN (and Norton 3X wheels, also used wet with plain water), I have no desire to use the Tormek adaptor for a dry grinder.
I have been unable to locate Metallium XDP2000 on ebay. Would you please post a link? Being made in Australia, it may have the same shipping costs in the US that Honerite Gold has going to Australia.
I applaud your pioneering spirit, KG. You are a valuable if the sharpening community.
Ken
RE: Metalworking fluid for CBN wheels - KnifeGrinders - 01-13-2018
Hi Ken,
you are never short of compliments, thank you.
I've checked the Australian eBay, and they don't ship XDP2000 overseas.
But the only special feature about this one is that dissolved in water it stays transparent, not turning grossly milky as others.
There should be something similar on your side of the pond.
Took me several trials to pick this one - actually it is the only which product description doesn't say that the solution turns "milky".
Well, there is something else good about it - it doesn't stain polished blades as some cutting coolants do, leaving a whitish patina behind.
RE: Metalworking fluid for CBN wheels - Ken S - 01-13-2018
KG,
I did not notice any of these problems with Honerite Gold. The only problem I noticed, which would effect you, is that it is not sold in Australia....... It isn't always such a small world when it comes to shipping. How frustrating.
Ken
RE: Metalworking fluid for CBN wheels - Mark Reich - 01-14-2018
Does Honerite Gold work properly?
With either product, does it affect the warranty of the CBN wheels when diluted with water?
RE: Metalworking fluid for CBN wheels - KnifeGrinders - 01-15-2018
I have to apologise for the above post about the water-based coolant, as I've been corrected by the CBN wheels distributor that their warranty doesn't cover those fluids either.
The negative effect of water on CBN takes place at high temperatures when steam promotes oxidation at the surface of the CBN crystal. This oxidation will result in an accelerated breakdown of the CBN particles and shortening of the grinding wheel life.
There is no problem with slow speed grinders, but unfortunately the warranty is blanket against the CBN use with water.
Here is the whole article explaining why CBN wheels and water aren't compatible:
Hard Choices: Diamond or CBN?- Gear Solutions Magazine
RE: Metalworking fluid for CBN wheels - grepper - 01-15-2018
Great article. Thanks for posting it.
RE: Metalworking fluid for CBN wheels - Mark Reich - 01-15-2018
Wow! Incredible information. Thank you, Mr. KG.
Do you experience steam with your operation?
I think this is an interesting statement;
Quote; "High-speed grinding is practical for roughing operations, where heavy stock removal is desirable. High-speed grinding for finishing operations may not be practical due to the minimal stock left for finishing, which limits the loading condition necessary for the proper micro-chipping of the grains crucial to maintain the sharp condition of the grinding wheel."
I've never seen a CBN wheel. Is it the same type of surface coating on a metal wheel?
For low speed finish grinding, I would expect different conditions would result.
I would not have thought they link grinding and milling operations so closely.
RE: Metalworking fluid for CBN wheels - KnifeGrinders - 01-15-2018
I knew you would like the article because I myself had WOW when read it.
Credit should go to Ken Rizza from the woodturnerswonders.com who shared the article with me, and Mark whose questions made me talk to Ken Rizza.
Personally I will continue using the metal working fluid with CBN wheels on Tormek, not only because at 90 RPM those negative effects don't apply, but also because I've noticed two properties it gives the edge.
Firstly, the edge oxidation is less, as far as the BESS score the next day can tell.
Secondly, CBN and diamonds leave deep narrow scratch pattern, while with the metal working fluid scratches are more resembling that of stones, and the edge is smoother.
RE: Metalworking fluid for CBN wheels - Ken S - 01-21-2018
I agree with KG. My active grinders are Tormeks. My CBN wheels are D-Way. They are steel, as is the reducing bushing from one inch to twelve millimeter. Dave Schweiter, the dealer, is an active turner who uses them to sharpen his turning tools with a high speed dry grinder. I believe there is an expectation (in the dry grinding community) that Tormekers would use them dry to eliminate "the hassle" of water. I prefer water to the hassle of grinding dust, even if the dust is just removed steel. Dave had no problem with me using the wheel wet with the Tormek.
My first test was using an eight inch CBN wheel both dry and with plain water with the T4. The combination is formidable! The balancing drill holes and the reducing bushing quickly had light surface rust. I removed the rust and used protective oil. This would not do. I then tried using Honerite Gold, not the same formula as Honerite. It is diluted one part with twenty five parts of water. That solved my rust problem. (As a preventative measure, I make sure to store my CBN wheels dry and use a light coating of oil on bare steel parts.)
I have no idea how either diamond or CBN performs at high speed. I use both with my Tormeks and like both. I am not questioning the scholarship of the article for industrial applications. I suspect sharpening knives and other tools with the 90 rpm Tormek falls outside the scope of the article
I have not used CBN enough to report on long term effects of wet use.
Ken