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+--- Thread: Viel purchase or modification thoughts (/showthread.php?tid=105)
Viel purchase or modification thoughts - Ken S - 06-04-2017
I think the Viel S 5 M is a very useful and versatile tool, both for sharpeners and around the shop. I also believe it can be even more versatile with some minor modifications. What it lacks, unfortunately, is good supporting information. I purchased and modified my Viel based on good recommendations and very little product information. I hope to spare other interested members from falling into the pitfalls as I have.
The standard operating procedure with the Viel is to purchase the basic unit and attach your own motor, often a motor you already have. That is a clever, cost effective plan. Where is falls apart is in not clearly stating that the motor must be a NEMA 44 design. (I have three spare motors in my shop, and intended to use one of them. They are all NEMA 52, and would not work.) If you happen to have a spare motor, make sure it has a half inch shaft and that the middle of the shaft is three inches above the bottom. Googling ."nema motor specifications" will quickly give you all the information you need.
If you have a compatible motor, you will have this versatile tool for around a hundred dollars US. If you do not have a motor and have no desire for variable speed, I suggest you buy the grinder and motor as a package. I found the one quarter horsepower motor from Viel very adequate for light sharpening. Viel also sells one third and one half horsepower motors for those who contemplate heavier work. The cost difference is minimal.
For the same cost as a new fixed speed motor, you can order a new variable speed motor kit from Penn State Industries. These motors were originally designed for mini lathes, but work well with the Viel with a few minor modifications.
The kit usually comes with a four step pulley too firmly attached to the shaft. I had to very forcibly remove mine with a gear puller. Rupert suggests cutting it off with a saber saw with a metal cutting blade and a cold chisel. I have heard that Penn State Industries will also ship the unit with the pulley unattached. This is the smart way to order it. It may require ordering by telephone. The time spent on the telephone is well worth it.
The older Viel model has a smaller shaft opening. All that is needed is to drill three holes with the included drill bit. The included diagram or bracket provide a good template for spotting the holes.
The newer Viels, mine included, have a larger front opening. This makes mounting the motor only slightly more difficult. The easiest way is to cut off the plastic covering on the bracket and mount it flat against the frame. Temporarily taping a piece of paper to the opening of the bracket will help in alignment. Draw two perpendicular lines to establish a center point. Then draw a circle just smaller than the bracket hole. The center point of the hole should be centered side to side with the frame and be three inches above the inside of the frame. I used an electric drill with a quarter inch bit to drill the bolt holes. Although I used four bolts, two are adequate.Make sure to locate the bolt holes outside of where the motor lies and clear of the flat area of the sanding belt pulley. I used 1/4 x 20 thread hex bolts 3/4" long with flat washers and locking nylon filled nuts. (bolt heads on the outside of the frame.) This can be a home shop project, as I did, or a relatively inexpensive part of the job for a machine shop.
When aligning the three motor holes, pay attention to the position of the motor brushes. I placed the motor label on top. In hindsight, I wish I had placed the brushes at three and nine o'clock.
The second part of the modification is definitely a machine shop project, although not expensive. The motor shaft is 15mm (approximately ,59"). The bore of the Viel pulley is half inch (.5"). The shaft must be turned down or the pulley bored out. Either way will work. I had the shaft turned down. In hindsight, I think boring out the pulley is simpler and maybe .less expensive. Make sure that a flat soft is filed or milled where the pulley's set screw will sit.
You may want to mount the motor control unit to the frame and/or install a reversing switch at some point. With the motor bolted onto the frame and the shaft and pulley mated, the modified Viel is fully functional.
Since purchasing the PSI motor, I have received very regular marketing emails from PSI. If you are not rushed to complete this project, PSI runs occasional 10% sales on all products. I suggest signing up for their email list to be notified of sales. I have not received acknowledgements or replies from either of the two emails I sent to PSI product support. Fortunately, more experienced BESS exchange members have been very helpful. Thanks, guys.
Ken
RE: Viel purchase or modification thoughts - Rupert Lucius - 06-04-2017
A NEMA 48 frame motor fits the Viel grinder frame.
3" shaft center down to the surface also has the 1/2" diameter shaft.
My thought, you were correct in changing your shaft to 1/2".
You will enjoy your variable speed Viel.
Stay tuned - next week we will do a Viel/Penn motor marriage.
Thank you for letting us walk in your foot steps and miss pot holes.
Rupert
RE: Viel purchase or modification thoughts - Ken S - 06-04-2017
My footsteps have been made on previously explored ground.I did try to thank those who have helped me by contributing a small idea to the knowledge base.
I look forward to the upcoming marriage.
Ken
ps Please note that I edited my first post (the part in italics).
RE: Viel purchase or modification thoughts - Mark Reich - 06-06-2017
Thanks a bunch, Mr. Ken, that was a very informative post!
Thanks to you and a very kind and most generous man with the initials Mr. Rupert, I believe i will finally become fluent in Viel in about a week!
Thanks to the powers that be, the new Viel is being accompanied home by his big brother, Mr. TW-90! I'm extremely grateful to my friends Travis and Lisa who made this this year's Blade Show another incredible experience for me, but I digress.
It was good of you to mention the horizontal configuration of the brushes. That's an easy foible.
It's rather disappointing to hear PSI hasn't acknowledged you, but I haven't heard anything like that before. Guessing and hoping that is an anomaly and I trust they will take care of you.
Thank you, Sir!
RE: Viel purchase or modification thoughts - Ken S - 06-07-2017
Mark,
I look forward to reading your thoughts as you use your new Viel. With your knifemaking background and experience with larger belt grinders, you bring factors new to me to the discussion. I find the forum experience so valuable. We can access the skills of knifemakers, professional sharpeners who do extensive sharpening on a week in week out basis, the many years of experience from members like Rupert. What a wealth of shared information!
I hope to contribute to this knowledge. For sure, I am benefitting from it!
My Viel is presently at the detailing shop getting racing stripes and replacement mag wheels.
( Just kidding. I have no desire for a tricked out show Viel; I just want the most functional tool which is reasonably possible. I am looking at some of the jigs Viel makes. I believe they are underused and not appreciated as much as they should be.)
Do keep us posted.
With family commitments, my shop time is very limited. I am looking forward to much more use with your marvelous hone.
Ken
RE: Viel purchase or modification thoughts - Mark Reich - 06-09-2017
Thank you so much for the kind words, Mr. Ken! You are already doing a marvelous job of contributing to this forum, and I'm very grateful for your candid, insightful perspective.
I am truly looking forward to working with this new machine, and finding it's perfect niche.
Thank You for sharing your experience, as it will certainly shorten my learning curve.
RE: Viel purchase or modification thoughts - Ken S - 06-09-2017
One of my favorite places is the Pleasant Hill Shaker Village near Lexington, Kentucky. I have a very high regard for the Shakers. They knew the value of quality work. They were very "open shop" people and shared their knowledge, both among themselves and with the outside world.
We all benefit from this kind of open shop forum sharing. As the old saying goes, "We are too soon old and too late schmart." We can help each other become schmarter sooner.
I have been planning the next phase in my Viel conversion. Max has his Viel equipped with metal plate to hold the motor control. It looks nice and I am sure is very functional. I am more of a woodworker than a metal worker. I plan to use Baltic birch plywood. It is nice to work with, and I happen to have some on hand. My plan is to have two pieces of 3/4" bbp, one along each side 7" x 12". I would radius the edges and let in for obstructions to allow the pieces to fit snuggly against the frame. I would need to include drilled holes for the screwdriver to access the brushes. Three drilled holes on each side of the frame with either hex bolts or hex head sheet metal screws would hold the bbp pieces securely to the Viel frame.
A cross piece of 3/4" bbp would be placed between the side pieces. It would be located beyond the end of the motor with enough space at the outer side to fully protect the motor control box, which would be mounted to it. A small register board and two holes for an electrical tie would hold the motor control in place. My reversing switch is on the face opposite the on/off and variable speed controls I want the motor control to be placed such that the three boards extend just enough to protect the top controls. I want the cross piece to be open on the bottom to allow the motor cord and possibly a short extensiob cord to be tucked in for storage and transport.
The cross piece can be held in place with flat head screws. A butt joint is probably adequate, although I may use a dado, or a sliding tapered dovetail joint. (That's another post.)
I want to be able to lay the Viel flat on either side. With this capability and the reversing motor, I will be able to use the full flexibility of the Viel.
I want to explore using the different Viel jigs, including those which use the adjusting wheel. I purchased an adjusting wheel through Steve Bottorff. Switching the included hex head bolt for a rhumb screw enables quick removal with no tools. I plan to use Viel's drill bit jig this way. I have the Tormek drill bit jig, which works marvelously. The Viel jig extends my range from 1/8" to 1/16".
A future development will be designing wood pieces to adjust the belt angle. Borrowing an idea from Steve Bottorff and Ken Stewart, I want to be able to angle the belt to where I can hold the knife flat (level) to grind the bevel.
I wish to state that using plywood with a Viel is not an original idea with me. Reading that Pete of this forum has done so indpired me. I hope Pete will post. I have never met Pete, nor have I ever seen or read anything about his finished product. Pete, if by chance you sell plywood accessories for the Viel, please let me know and I will gladly delete this post. I have no desire to sell anything, nor do I wish to interfere with anyone who sells a useful product.
Ken