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+--- Forum: Burr Removal Methods, Testing and Results (http://bessex.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Thread: Wire Edge Prevention (/showthread.php?tid=372)
RE: Wire Edge Prevention - KnifeGrinders - 11-02-2018
Thank you, Ken
I've incorporated feedback I've got from several forums, and have finished editing.
Anyone who wishes to save our Knife Deburring in PDF please do it now, as I will be removing the online version when it goes to the publisher.
RE: Wire Edge Prevention - grepper - 11-03-2018
Thanks for the effort and for sharing that Knife Deburring PDF Mr. KG. Interesting and appreciated!
I'm amazed by the amount of data shared on the Exchange. It's actually difficult to keep up and absorb it all.
RE: Wire Edge Prevention - jasonstone20 - 11-18-2018
KnifeGrinders,
Do you think that because your knives were new and the butchers knives were used, that the edges of your knives could have been damaged during the factory grinding and sharpening, and maybe after they have been sharpened a few more times they might last as long as the butchers? Also, the difference in the grit between the knives could cause a difference.
RE: Wire Edge Prevention - Luis_J - 01-11-2019
I finished the whole thread and I found it mind blowing, thanks to all the members involved, the amount of information and the quality of it is amazing, I have a ton to learn but I'm enjoying the process big time.
Luis.
RE: Wire Edge Prevention - WI_Hedgehog - 07-30-2026
This is an old topic but I'll dredge it back up because I didn't see a great solution to the wire edge and removing it is pretty simple. I have a pretty high-end camera on a K4 fixed-angle sharpener, though you don't need either and finding/resolving the issue is actually easy once you know what to look for.
First, only sharpen Edge Trailing (pulling the sharp edge of the blade away from the stone, don't push it into the stone) if using diamond stones because it helps keep the diamonds from being ripped out of the stone. Second, only sharpen Edge Trailing if using any other type of stone as it promotes forming a burr faster than moving back-and-forth with the stone. Use about 2# of pressure and sharpen in a criss-cross pattern to remove the most material with the least effort. Start at the heel of the blade (the handle side) with about 2 straight strokes, on the third stroke pull toward the tip 3/16". Lift the stone on a fixed angle system or life the knife if using a whetstone and move it straight up, then put the two back in contact and move over another 3/16" on the stroke. Keep doing this all the way to the tip. A healthy burr should have formed all the way along the knife edge (apex). It's pretty easy to feel by lightly pulling you finger across it--do NOT pull your finger down the length of the blade or the burr will possibly cut your finger.
Once you have established a burr along the whole edge (even a small one) flip the knife over and do the same on the other side. This time the burr will likely be more pronounced. A 5" knife takes about 20 strokes each direction on each side and goes pretty quickly. Experts uses far fewer strokes, but I like a mirror edge and I've found this is the easiest way to eliminate all the random scratches.
Flip the knife to the original side. From the tip work your way back to the heel using 1# of pressure, 3/16" at a time, removing the ridges left by moving heel-to-tip. Flip and repeat. Then flip to the original side and work back from heel-to-tip as light as you can, again removing the ridges. Flip and repeat. Each time lighter pressure is used the burr gets smaller.
In review, for a 5" knive you've taken twenty 2# passes on each side, then twenty 1# on each side and twenty 0# on each side, and the scratch pattern runs heel-to-tip. On the original side make five 0# passes tip-to-heal, flip to the other side and do the same. Then make five more each side. Then three each side, then one each side. This will almost completely remove the wire-edge that would otherwise weld itself to the apex.
Move to the next finer stone and repeat the process starting with 2# of pressure for hard steel, 1# for medium-hard steel, and 0# for soft China steel that is being sharpened at a steep angle.
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The way to find a burr is with the sensitive skin on the side of your pointer finger, if you drag it across both sides of the blade edge-trailing you'll find the burr on one side.
The wire edge, however, is what people strop to pull off, and that's much harder to detect. Lightly drag a fingernail edge-trailing (from the thick part of the blade straight down off the edge of the sharp part of the blade) and on once side of the apex your fingernail will catch slightly instead of sliding off--that's the wire edge that welded itself to the apex. It's pretty difficult to strop off without 2# of pressure and a lot of strokes. The softer the steel the more the chance of a wire edge, the harder the steel the less chance. Or really I should say the more brittle the steel the less chance of a wire edge because it breaks off instead of rolling over and welding itself back on, but that's hard to determine without knowing the steel or being able to see what's happening. MUCH easier than stropping it off is taking 5+5+3 passes over the stone, maybe following with 1 final cleanup pass.
The wire edge is hard to see with a 10x loupe because it's so small, but like I said your fingernail will slightly catch on one if it exists. Over 55x magnification you can see it, you'd light the apex from about 3" away and 1" up which causes the wire edge to glow like a mountain ridge against the black blade that's not reflecting much light. The angle of reflection equals angle of incidence, so if the light shines at a perfectly sharp edge it reflects at that same angle which is not into the camera lens so it looks dark.
The easiest way I've found to make it glow is to clean the apex with 99.99% isopropyl alcohol (Amazon) on toilet paper, lightly pinching and pulling off the blade. The alcohol removes the water or oil used for sharpening and the ridges catch and tear out very tiny fibers of the toilet paper and make the ridges glow even more. If you stop at 3 strokes on the final pass at 600 grit you should see tiny specks of light on the apex here and there, if you finished with 1 stroke at almost no pressure it will be a few random specks of light right on the apex here and there.
You don't need all that expensive equipment though, just a light edge-trailing pass with the tip of your fingernail. You can pretty much find a rolled edge the same way which is how you tell if the apex angle is too sharp for the way the knife is being used (your nail kind of slides up a hill and then over the edge instead of "right off the knife").
I'm not a whetstone guy, but there's typically a lot more surface in contact with the knife than with a 1" wide stone 6" long on a fixed-angle sharpener (possibly smaller depending on the sharpener). If you've a large whetstone then you'll need fewer strokes. Similarly if you're using a Lansky system with smaller "fixed-angle" stones you'll need more strokes as the stones are something like 1/2" X 5". If you're not into a highly refined and polished edge you likely can cut the number of strokes in half--for inexpensive Chicago Cutlery knives that are soft and won't hold their edge long I don't put in the effort, rather I focus on getting the flattened soft edge usable again--30 degrees per side, 240 grit; I don't even bother with 600 grit, the finishing strokes with the method above with a 240 grit stone get it to about the equivalent of a 400 grit stone, so "close enough for government work." A good chef's knife I'll go up to 1000 grit, 2000 if it's for home use and well cared for. Pocket knives and such: 9000 grit, and if the angle is small (13 degrees or less) forming a wide reflective surface on the cutting edge then I'll strop it if it's going on display, but I'm also using different stones rated in microns instead of grit and being much more careful every step of the process.
Hope this helps!!!