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RE: Old sharpening methods... - Rupert Lucius - 03-09-2018

You two men bring tears of happiness and remembering to my mind, reading your post -

Thanks

RE: Old sharpening methods... - Ken S - 03-10-2018

When I visited the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Michigan, I was surprised to see how many of the telephone tools on display I was still using. It is often easy to overlook the value of old non electric tools. While I am not adverse to new technology, I used a brace and bit throughout my career. Early on,  when we were using feeble, underpowered electric drills, the brace and bit was sometimes the only was we had to drill difficult holes. When you have to drill a 5/8” (16mm) hole through a log cabin beam, you soon learn the value of a sharp bit. A very useful tool we carried on the truck was an auger bit file. This was a small file with safe edges (no cutting grooves). One end had safe edges; the other end had safe faces. I bought a couple for home use. Lee Valley sells them Here is a link:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/Page.aspx?p=70693&

Here is another information link to the Nicholson file they carried in the past:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,43072,43089&p=32954

When I retired, I still carried and used the Yankee push drill in my tool pouch. The old Star drill, which we powered with taps from a hammer, was still in my toolbox, but rarely used. My block and tackle rescued me frequently, as did my crowbar. 

Today everything is battery drills. I used them, too, and was glad to have them. I was also glad to have my brace and bit for difficult work the battery drill could not handle. (By the time Mark's eighteen volt tools came along, the underpowered issue was controlled.)

I like using older tools. Using them reminds me of former owners, often my father or grandfathers.New tools become older quickly. Even the metric wrenches I purchased new in 1971 would be considered as older tools by some. 

Our present standard of living is in large part due to the craftsmen and tools of the past. Today we can purchase a high quality Morakniv for around the same cost as a large pizza. The pizza will be consumed by the end of the day, however, the Morakniv will belong to my grandson someday.

Ken

RE: Old sharpening methods... - Edgepal - 03-10-2018

Today 90% of the population in industrial countrys lives in citys and I think that few percent of this group have a carpenetr hut - or space to use as a workshop. If they have space dor it - the space is small.

Todays tools are very handy, I have alot of them and enjoy them. They are easy to work with.
My wife talk me in to to build a workshop on our property (I hade then my workshop innthe basement). Well, I started to make up drawings. On a workshop 6X6 meters. My wife insisted that we needed a carport also - so I make new drawings with a carport and workshop. I show her the drawing and she insisted that we need a wood shed for all firewood...so I say ok - but then I need to ba a lot of tools...and she accepted. Together we build a this "house" with workshop (isolated), carport,mand Woodhenge, 6X12 meters. Hard work - but it was fun. And I bought a LOT of tools and batterys for the tools - and my wife did not protested at all... Smile

I use similar files earlyer and files for sharpening saws and later also chainsaws. Usedul things when all tools was used by hand.

When building the workshop i use my knifes a lot and also my axes. I prefer the handsaw instead of the electric saws for smaller jobs.

Thomas

RE: Old sharpening methods... - Edgepal - 03-11-2018

Have we talk about King Tutanchamons knife? 3350 year old - made of iron from a meteorit - during the copper age Smile


https://i.ibb.co/xC2Bs2F/image.png


So, for 3350 years ago King Tut used this knife - before iron was invented... If he uses iron from meteorits - other people can have done the same thing, perhaps. Never say never....

Meteorits can have been used as hammers and other tools, small pieces perhaps was used to make up fire...

Any way, it is a very nice knife, or dagger, nice design - and I so not think that this is the first iron knife they made when I see the design...

Thomas

RE: Old sharpening methods... - Mike Brubacher - 03-26-2018

You know Thomas, you're beginning to inspire me. I'm headed to the farm later this week and thinking about resurrecting one of these old babies:

[Image: 601d4d46e42bcf514803e58254fef26d.jpg]  

Might have to cast a new wheel for it but I have the materials and know how to do that. Add an angle guide/knife rest and I just might put Grepper and his 1SM accessory out of business. I'm not kidding about this. I think that I have one where the wheel runs in a trough of water. Just think for a moment how many of the questions raised here on the Exchange over the past year this device addresses.  What would you guys guess the abrasive grit at for a typical example of one of these? Here's another thought; how about an approximately 23" diameter wheel that 72" belts could be mounted on? Maybe just a leather one for burr removal. Run the bottom side in water and pedal just as fast as the sharpening progression calls for. Just in case you guys think that I've been smoking dope, I haven't. Nothing against it, it just never agreed with me.

RE: Old sharpening methods... - Edgepal - 03-26-2018

I an happy that I inspire you Mike. I think we can learn a lot of things from old times.

In Sweden we have a producer of a modern grinder type what your picture show. Tye name is: Kirunaslipen. Search onnthe name and you will find their homepage.

I prefer big diameter grinding wheel and water below ghe wheel...but when you build that waterkeeper, sont forget to empty it after every time you use it... If wheel like this stands in water - they broke the stone as in your picture...

I like koncept innovations. When a product go out ro the market the product shall be ready for it - and constructed in that way that it can grow with new equipment and new functions. I se today new sharpening tools that are presented to the market long time before they are ready for the market (in my mind).
When I constructed my tool Chef I made more then 200 prototypes and tested all of them hard before I see Chef as ready for the market. Today I se a lot of prototypes (in my mind) on the market.

A turning wheel is a old good funktional method for sharpening, most people knows that. What I would like to se is this old method - combined with modern materials. You think leather wheel and modern belts, good, I like that. Why not a diamond surface indifferens microns?

Can the wheel be made in aluminum and have a smaller wheel as expansion?
Du your really need water to your tool? (Water in your whisky instead)?
Can you use a engines what type? How strong? Shall the engin be on ghe small or on the big wheel?
If you use two wheels - build a slack part for convex edge sharpening - or perhaps a oval wheel?

I can give you many questions about how to combine old knowledge with new materials and new functions. And of cause - think it thru, dont start with a prototype onnthe market, please Wink

Can I be to any help in your projekt, just ask.

I have constructed a lot of tools and I have many misstakes, and learn from them - and I prefer the monkey method = sucsess by a lot of failur Smile

Thoma

RE: Old sharpening methods... - Jan - 03-27-2018

Mike, I like your old pedal grinding wheel very much. Smile 

I would try to repair the broken stone by installing several steel staples and by filling the fracture with suitable glue with added abrasive powder.

What grit concerns, I think, that grit around 150 to 180 will work fine. You will have probably to reactivate and true the stone surface. If your stone is too coarse, you can smooth it using a stone grader.

The metal sheet between the stone and the seat served probably as a support which enabled to keep the desired bevel angle consistent along the whole blade and also to keep the angle the same for both sides.

[attachment=590]

It should not be difficult to add a water trough also. In this case the metal sheet serves as a mudguard and prevents the water spillage towards the knife grinder also.  

[attachment=589]

Jan

RE: Old sharpening methods... - Ken S - 03-27-2018

This grinder bears a remarkable resemblance to another Swedish wet grinder, the Tormek.  Smile

Ken

RE: Old sharpening methods... - Jan - 03-27-2018

Yes, Ken! Smile 
"What has been will be again, / what has been done will be done again; / there is nothing new under the sun." King Solomon, Ecclesiastes 1:9.

Jan

RE: Old sharpening methods... - Mike Brubacher - 03-27-2018

How much truer could something be Jan? Nothing new about this idea and that's for certain! You know Ken, as soon as I finished the post above, and particularly after I saw a picture of one of these modified for electric power, I thought "looks like a big ol' Tormek to me". I really like the idea of having absolute and immediate control over the speed of the wheel. That ability as well as the ability to introduce water to the process would be a good way to test some sharpening theories.

I think that I would like to recast a wheel regardless. While I have a great regard for how things used to be done I would still like to end up with a time effective sharpening device. I learned a little more after posting yesterday. Apparently these old grinding wheels were made up of some form of sandstone. The silica in the stone was the primary abrasive. Most used a drip can on the top side to wet the stone. At least one source said that a trough on the bottom was a bad idea because the silica slurry build-up would be washed away. I assume that grindstone material might change from geographic region to geographic region.

I mentioned in a post in another thread a few weeks ago that we had at one time constructed our own (albeit much smaller) grinding stones. The bonding matrix for those stones included fly ash, plasticizer, and a special grade of portland cement. One could add any grit or type of abrasive one's heart desired to this matrix and at concentrations (by volume) as high as 65% abrasive/35% matrix. The PSI of these stones could be adjusted from 5 - 11,000. At 11,000 PSI you're falling just a few thousand PSI short of some ceramics as I recall. The biggest drawback is that it takes about 30 days of cure time for these stones to reach 85% cure and, I think, 6 months for full cure. Curing must occur in a wet environment.

I think that some combination of the above is what I would like to make a grinding wheel out of. Mounting grinding belts is tempting for obvious and practical reasons but I don't want to offend Thomas by becoming too modern here. I don't want to offend myself either so I lean toward a 180-220 grit maybe SC or AO wheel. Add a good means of controlling sharpening angle and we might just be in business. I've already assigned a name to this endeavor - The Thomas Project.

Headed to the farm tomorrow and then Quincy, Illinois Saturday to attend number 5 grandchild's first birthday. Will try to take some pictures if I can find a likely candidate treadle grinding wheel for refurbishment. You know how that goes. You've been looking at something for ten years and it looks just fine from a distance...then you have a closer look.