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+--- Thread: Viel-- variable speed or slower speed? (/showthread.php?tid=78)
RE: Viel-- variable speed or slower speed? - Jeremy - 05-19-2017
Thanks Ken, I will look into Max's reference.
RE: Viel-- variable speed or slower speed? - Ken S - 05-20-2017
Grepper,
I need to post some photos. The jig itself is primarily the Viel scissors jig. With the Viel jig, the tool (scissor) holder sits on a 3/8" OD nub. The nub on the platform is the male part of the connection. It slips inside a 3/8" hole, the female part, in the bottom of the holder.
The adaptor is essentially just a "gender bender". It is a piece of round stock 3/4" OD by an inch long. One end is bored 3/8" ID by 3/8" deep. (That end has two set screws to hold it in place.) The other end is bored 1/4" ID deep enough to hold the Wolff Twice as Sharp holder. (This end has no set screws and allows the holder to rotate for normal operation.) It is double female ended.
In my case, the two threaded holes on the 3/8" end had not been cleaned up. The adaptor would not quite fit over the nub. After a few frustrating attempts to file off the rough drill debris, I put the combination in a vise and press fit it. In hindsight, I regret doing that. It works very well with the TAS holder, however, I can not remove the adaptor and use the Viel holder.
Wolff makes six versions of the holder. Three versions use their standard plastic locking screw; three versions use their larger ergo (ergonomic) locking screw. I ordered the ergo model. It is only a couple dollars more. It seems like it will lock securely with less hand strain. Wolff makes three different widths of clamping jaws. Max uses the wide jaws. In my case, most of my scissor sharpening will be to service the smaller scissors at my grandchildren's school, so I opted for the standard width. As sharpening is a hobby for me and I have a predilection for gadgets, I may eventually end up with all three sizes.
For anyone considering going this route, I will try to tell "the whole truth": After I purchased the Wolff holder and ordered the adaptor, I found out that the present Viel holder is an improved model. I do not know what changes Viel made. I also do not know if Max was using the older or newer version of the Viel holder. The newer version of the Viel holder may have corrected some or all of the difficulties. Hopefully someone with experience with both models and the Wolff holders will post. Incidentally, I have replaced some of the plastic locking screws on my Tormek jigs with more ergonomic shaped plastic screws. A good hardware store should have a variety of these. Thke a couple jigs with you to the store to test the fit and comfort.
The Wolff holder is double ended. This is to allow the mounted svissor to be used in either the left or right mounted wheel of the Wolff machines. (different grit wheels, hence the "twice as sharp"). This is not necessary with a narrow belt grinder, however, being able to grind the scissor with the bevel angle either up or down may (or may not) prove useful.
As my motor is still at the shop being modified, I have not yet used the new holder. I did have some problems with the angle adjustment slipping with the Viel holder.
For anyone planning to build a rig like this primarily for sharpening sscissors, do not go this path strictly to save money instead of buying a Wolff machine. I probably have an amount equal to the cost of a Wolff machine tied up in my souped up Viel. The basic Viel with scissors jig and a fixed speed 1/4 hp motor is about half the cost of a Wolff, and does a very adequate job. It can do a lot more than just scissors. The Viel works very efficiently with the Tormek, easily handling chores like bolster reduction, reshaping chef's knife curves, and convex edges. The wide variety of available belts extends the svope of the Tormek. For those obsessed with the minute hollow grind of the large Tormek wheels, the flat platen of the Viel offers flat grinding.
One further caveat: I bought just the Viel with no motor, planning to use one of the three unused shop motors I have. This would have worked if my motors had the smaller NEMA frame. All of my motors have a larger NEMA 56 frame. I ended up ordering a motor from Viel. I have no complaints with the Viel motor. If I had to do it again, unless I had a NEMA 44 motor, I would order the Viel with the motor, unless I planned to convert to variable speed. In that case, I would order just the Viel frame and get a variable speed motor from Penn State Industries.
When fully modified, I believe my Viel will be a very versatile, useful tool. I just have not done everything in the most direct, cost efficient manner. I hope this post will benefit others. I will eventually have a more complete article with photos.
Ken
Jeremy, Google gravediggermax scissors youtubes to see Max' rig in use.
RE: Viel-- variable speed or slower speed? - MaxtheKnife - 05-20-2017
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2 more pics follow...........reasons unknown it will not let me load but 3 tonight
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4 or 5 years ago mark made me pole adapter for rally to use TS arm............works good, but some type of scissors for me, it would not adjust correctly.........i do not use it any longer
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RE: Viel-- variable speed or slower speed? - Ken S - 05-21-2017
Thanks for posting the photos, Max.
I am really disappointed. The motor shop hoped to have everything done for me by Friday a week ago. Apparently a combination of ordering the wrong switch, having a man ov vacation, and some unexpected out of shop repair work prevented my work from being completed. I can understand the shop's predicament. I am not irate; I just wanted to use my Viel this weekend.
Max, you comment in your scissors video that you like the wider TAS holder. Does it work well with smaller scissors or do you also use either the standard width and/or narrow holders?
Ken
RE: Viel-- variable speed or slower speed? - Mark Reich - 05-21-2017
Just mentioning an easy way to get the belt running in the opposite direction if desired- turn the machine around.
The belt isn't too slack when you're close to the top or bottom wheel.
Works for Kallys, I don't have a Viel.
RE: Viel-- variable speed or slower speed? - MaxtheKnife - 05-21-2017
(05-21-2017, 04:37 AM)Ken S Wrote: Thanks for posting the photos, Max.
I am really disappointed. The motor shop hoped to have everything done for me by Friday a week ago. Apparently a combination of ordering the wrong switch, having a man ov vacation, and some unexpected out of shop repair work prevented my work from being completed. I can understand the shop's predicament. I am not irate; I just wanted to use my Viel this weekend.
Max, you comment in your scissors video that you like the wider TAS holder. Does it work well with smaller scissors or do you also use either the standard width and/or narrow holders?
Ken
last year or so i have started sharpening smaller and medium scissors by hand using magic marker......the 1" wide TS clamp i use for industrial scissors and most hedge trimmers.......you can clamp smaller scissors by handle
RE: Viel-- variable speed or slower speed? - Ken S - 05-21-2017
Clever, Max. I had not thought of clamping small scissors by the handles. I think you are right that it may be easier to just handhold small scissors. Up until a few years ago, handheld was also the only way small knives were sharpened with the Tormek.
Ken
RE: Viel-- variable speed or slower speed? - Ken S - 05-24-2017
Update:
The motor modification is complete. I installed the new motor. I needed to sharpen a pair of loppers for my grandchildren's school. The slow range of the motor worked very well; sharpening was efficient and very well controlled.
Ken
RE: Viel-- variable speed or slower speed? - grepper - 05-24-2017
I'll be interested to hear how the little tach works for you.
RE: Viel-- variable speed or slower speed? - Jeremy - 05-24-2017
Having a tach sounds just as good as having a reverse switch that Ken mentioned. It seems to me that my motor randomly speeds up and slows down without any noticeable tension from the belt.
I've sharpened 200+knives so far and a few other random things with the Penn/Viel combo and now wonder more than ever what speed, what belt and what direction to work. Belt rotating into the edge on the platen start to finish or platen first and reverse rotation and strop slow away from the edge on the slack part. The slower speed certainly helps me relax more in these warmer months!