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+--- Thread: Viel-- variable speed or slower speed? (/showthread.php?tid=78)
Viel-- variable speed or slower speed? - Ken S - 04-29-2017
My Viel conversion hit a snag; my refrigerator died. This did not cancel the project, but did slow progress. While waiting, I continued doing research. I found references to two speed motors (1725/1140 rpm or 1725/830).
My only reservation with the Viel, or dry grinding in general, is the heat generated. Max's variable speed modification, as shown in his scissors sharpening video, seems just the ticket. In my case, as a home sharpener, speed is not a consideration. I believe having just a slower speed might solve my problem, although I have no direct experience to support that belief.
Pros and cons: If I can locate a slower speed motor which fits 115 volt, NEMA 48 frame, half inch shaft, and reversible; Replacement would be just a direct fit, except for the reversing switch. (The Penn State Industries variable speed motor requires modifying the mounting bracket and either boring out the pulley shaft or turning the motor shaft down to half inch in addition to wiring the switch.) I see three speed ranges listed, and am curious to know what the direct drive range would be.
I would have to have a machinist bore out the pulley. Could I do the bracket modification in my home shop?
Comments welcome.
Ken
RE: Viel-- variable speed or slower speed? - grepper - 04-29-2017
The Kalamazoo 1SM belt grinder motor runs @ 1725 RPM, motivating the belt @ 1800 SFPM via a 4” drive wheel. I’ve never had any problem at all with heating while sharpening.
RE: Viel-- variable speed or slower speed? - Rupert Lucius - 04-29-2017
Ken
It is easier for me to talk than write.
In ref to conversions of Viel's, SM 1's, and etc if you have the time please give me a telephone call. Take a look at your Private Messages.
Rupert
RE: Viel-- variable speed or slower speed? - Ken S - 04-30-2017
Thanks for the replies.
Grepper: The Viel has a six inch pulley. With a 1725rpm pulley, I calculate the surface feet per minute at approximately 2700 sfm. Being an old Tormeker, that seems very fast to me.
I have some real progress to report. A pleasant telephone call with a new friend from Louisiana provided the answers I needed to proceed. Just before writing this post, I placed my order with Penn State Industries. Thank you, Lucius. Your expertise and encouragement is most appreciated.
I will post results.
Ken
RE: Viel-- variable speed or slower speed? - MaxtheKnife - 04-30-2017
Ken
of my 4 - 1 x 42"......2 have penn states........kallys and viel's like grepper said turn a shade over 1700 rpms.....not bad, but variable speed is FAR BETTER .......just my opinion......especially if you plan on doing any scissors.........i feel you already know this.
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i also have a variable speed "whatever"........buffing....polishing......and all around something
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RE: Viel-- variable speed or slower speed? - Rupert Lucius - 04-30-2017
Max -
Your number 3 photo appears to be a "buffer"? with pre drilled motor heights holes? and a very high quality tool rest assy laying on standby.
How clever and practical.
Rupert
RE: Viel-- variable speed or slower speed? - Jeremy - 05-09-2017
A lot of great topics on this forums, but I picked this one for my first since I followed Max and got the Penn motor and his invite.
I've had it for a few weeks and just recently bored the hole in a Viel pulley and realized that I also need to cut a bit off the shaft and create a new key. It also rotates the belt opposite of what I prefer. No biggie, should be easy fixes, just thought I'd mention it. I can't remember the numbers and made the math more difficult than it needed to be so I may of had it wrong rotating at around 1700 on a Viel pulley. There was also a thought of rigging the motor as it was intended with three other pulleys similar to my KMG. (Veils newest model has too big of a hole for the arbor to allow the Penn motor to mount directly to it).
I'm looking forward to this new Viel/Penn combo and I will share the other mods I have in store for it once it's done.
Thanks for the invite Max!
RE: Viel-- variable speed or slower speed? - grepper - 05-09-2017
Welcome to the forum Mr. Jeremy.
Lucky you. You have a KMG. Nice machine! Very
. The Kally runs @ 1725 rpm which I guess is about the same as the Viel, but uses a 4” drive wheel vs the 6” used on the Viel. Hence the Kally motivates the belt @ less SFPM than the Viel.
Oh, I forgot-
Ken said, ""Grepper: The Viel has a six inch pulley. With a 1725rpm pulley, I calculate the surface feet per minute at approximately 2700 sfm. Being an old Tormeker, that seems very fast to me.""
Yeah, the Tormek runs @ 100 rpm. Kind of hard for anything else not to seem "very fast"!
RE: Viel-- variable speed or slower speed? - Rupert Lucius - 05-10-2017
(04-30-2017, 10:37 AM)MaxtheKnife Wrote: Ken
of my 4 - 1 x 42"......2 have penn states........kallys and viel's like grepper said turn a shade over 1700 rpms.....not bad, but variable speed is FAR BETTER .......just my opinion......especially if you plan on doing any scissors.........i feel you already know this.
.
i also have a variable speed "whatever"........buffing....polishing......and all around something
.
.
.
.
Tell us more about your "all around something".
Looks to be a "winner"?
You also chose a very hi quality tool rest.
http://bessex.com/forum/attachment.php?aid=171
Thanks
Rupert
RE: Viel-- variable speed or slower speed? - Ken S - 05-10-2017
Quote:(Sorry I was not able to copy the photo of the bracket and frame from the other side.) My Viel frame is the newer version with the larger opening. The handle portion of the bracket may be bent, sawn off (which I chose), or by just shaving off the plastic. When I complete the project, I will post a more complete document with photos. My oresent point is that the motor bracket is easily adapted to the larger opening.
My motor is presently at the motor shop having the OD reduced to fit the Viel pulley and the switch changed to a reversible switch.
I believe the potentiometer in the control box can be adjusted to lower the minimum speed.
I will post more when I get there.
Ken
My present 1/4 hp motor is 1725 rpm. Does anyone know the high and low rpm of the Penn State motor (before any potentiometer adjustment)?
Ken