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Building a Super Forge - Mark Reich - 04-09-2017

My first forge has been serving me well for basic bladesmithing, but it really isn't big enough or hot enough to do the type of work I want to do now. Hence, I decided to build something that will keep me smiling for the foreseeable future. 

I figured I would need a sturdy tube about 18" in diameter by 3' long. I called the steel yard to see what that would cost, and it was about $150. I didn't think that was too bad, but they told me to come down and look through the scrap yard. Low and behold, I spotted a commercial water heater that looked about right, and payed the scrap price of $15. 

With the bottom cut out, and the top cut off, it was Exactly the size I wanted. It even has double thick reinforced ends. 

I cut the burner holes and welded the drilled and tapped burner mounts to the shell. After grinding a thick layer of water deposits out, I finished the inside with 2000*F primer and paint to get a good bond with the 3000*F mortar that holds all the 2800*F brick and insulation together.

There's a layer of 1-1/4" thick, 4-1/2" wide brick, under the 2-1/2"x 4-1/2"x 9" brick. This is the actual floor of the forge. After learning how Sairset works (which is dang slowly), I let it dry for about a week.
[Image: IMG_01741_zpsh7gnbcdu.jpg]



1 1/4" x6" x9" brick are fully mortared in, to make solid walls instead of Kaowool walls. Now you can see the "subfloor" layer better. This solid, bonded foundation is absolutely critical. 
[Image: IMG_01791_zpsm1keumu0.jpg]



The outside layer of 2" Kaowool is mortared to the shell. It's slightly asymmetrical so I have room for an extra layer of Kaowool on the right side, where the burners are aiming. This will create a swirl effect to help eliminate hot spots in the forge.
[Image: IMG_0649_zpszksrwsxz.jpg]



It's pretty tricky to get all the Kaowool mortared together and supported into a nice smooth arch before the mortar dries. I'm pretty happy with the results at this point. 

High temp brick is very soft and fragile before the mortar soaks in and drys. It was easy to rip the triangular pieces with an old blade on the tablesaw. These will be mortared into corners to facilitate smoother transitions for a cleaner laminar flow of the swirling gases.
[Image: IMG_0662_zps0vlmpw42.jpg]



While I was welding the burner tubes, I also welded short pieces of angle iron to the outside of the shell on all four corners for extra strong attachment points for the legs. They really came in handy whenever we needed to move this heavy, awkward  sucker. There really wasn't another way to grab it without messing up the insulation.

After a few days to dry, I started running thermal cycles to stabilize everything. 
If anyone is interested, I can show more to this build
[Image: IMG_0661_zpsp3bdwfqd.jpg]

RE: Building a Super Forge - Bubby - 04-10-2017

First post for me and a new member Mark. This is fascinating. I would love to do what you and wade are doing but that is down the road for me. I would like to know why your forge has to be so large. Do you really intend on making three foot long blades or does the forge need to be that large for proper heating or some other reason?

I love wadebevans stuff. He seems to be starting out just about where I hope to soon so the process both of you describe is very, very helpful and interesting.

RE: Building a Super Forge - wadebevan - 04-10-2017

Wow Mark, that is very cool.
When you get there, could you post a pic of it being fired?
The smithing aspect of all of this is starting to bubble up on my list of things to do.
Also might help to post a list of where you get the raw materials for making such a beast.

Welcome to the forum Bubby, and thanks for the kind words.

RE: Building a Super Forge - Mark Reich - 04-10-2017

Hi Bubby, Welcome to the Forum, it's great to have you here!

My chosen steel is 52100, which is the steel almost all ball bearings are made of. The steel I use comes from a batch of steel that was intended to go to NASA for large bearings. The company that made it went bankrupt before the steel got sent to NASA.

The steel company that bought the bankrupt company sells the steel to my 52100 mentor, Ed Fowler. I get it in 3" diameter round stock, which is a bear to forge down to usable bar stock. It takes a Lot of heat. My first forge was marginally enough. The new forge will handle this job Much more quickly and efficiently.

Now I'm interested in making damascus, which also takes a lot of heat. I'd like to try to make bigger things, like swords and axes, which takes a big forge.

I'm interested in casting brass, bronze and aluminum. It takes high heat to melt these metals. This forge will not only make all these wishes come true, it will do so easily.

With adjustable volume via a movable rear wall, I'll be able to use just as much room as needed for the project at hand. I won't need to use the whole forge or the second burner very much, but now I'm virtually unlimited.

I can't stand marginal equipment. It makes things more difficult than necessary, and wears out too quickly. I'm a huge fan of overkill. It makes things easy.

RE: Building a Super Forge - wadebevan - 04-10-2017

3" dia. round stock!!! Yeah, that would need a lot of heat.
I spent some time on the web this morning looking for 52100 steel in flat bar stock, not as common as I had hoped.

+1 on overkill Smile

(I could have built my fence out of 4x4 posts, but 6x6 treated posts will likely outlast me.)

RE: Building a Super Forge - Mark Reich - 04-10-2017

Thanks Wade! I'm happy this is interesting to folks who don't know about forging...yet!   Big Grin

I should mention that no one needs a forge like this to get into bladesmithing. There is a Huge difference between forging and forge welding and foundry work.

My first forge is still great for basic bladesmithing. I'll still use it much of the time. It heats up to 2000*F quickly and easily, and that's way hotter than necessary for forging blades, but I needed it to work the big round stock down too.

Refractory material for 2000* is common and not very expensive. I surely don't remember how much my first forge cost, but it wasn't much. Maybe $350 in material and $200 for the burner. 

When you're talking about 2800*-3000*F refractory material, everything changes. The brick for this forge cost almost $700. The mortar was about $100. The Kaowool was about $400. The burners were $450. $300 for the ceramic interior surface coating. The steel and incidentals probably another $100. 

Sure, you will hear of guys spending a fraction of that, and they can forge weld, but I want to be Delighted, no matter what, for the rest of my life. "Buy once cry once" has always been a fine motto. 

Anyway, here are a few pics; 

[Image: IMG_0747_zpsoihjzbly.jpg] 

This was the first firing. I tried the foundry burner, but even at 2 psi of propane it got too hot too fast. Within a few minutes the forge was 1200* on this end, and 800* on the far end. I swapped to my smallest burner, and slowly brought the whole thing to 1200* for an hour. 

[Image: IMG_0775_zpsyemebeg9.jpg]
One foundry burner, set to the lowest output, brought the whole forge to 1500* in half an hour. 

[Image: IMG_0778_zpsfkc9yy6t.jpg]
At 5 psi, it took about 45 minutes to heat the whole forge to 1900*. The picture can't show how bright orange it is. 
After an hour at 1900* I can still hold my hand on the top of the forge.

Now I'm ready to finish the interior with 2 layers of satinite clay and 2 coatings of ceramic ITC 100. After firing each coat I'll take it to my forging shop and finish the build.
(04-10-2017, 11:21 AM)wadebevan Wrote: 3" dia. round stock!!!  Yeah, that would need a lot of heat.
I spent some time on the web this morning looking for 52100 steel in flat bar stock, not as common as I had hoped.

+1 on overkill Smile

(I could have built my fence out of 4x4 posts, but 6x6 treated posts will likely outlast me.)

Right on! I know a whole lot about building fence and corral. We used to buy railroad ties by the truckload, but you only have to dig the hole once.

Almost everyone using 52100 buys bar stock from Aldo Bruno. It needs heavy spheroidizing. 

You will need a good kiln. I strongly recommend the Paragon 24" double barrel. They sold their first one at Blade last year. There's a picture of it on this forum in another thread.
Big Grin

RE: Building a Super Forge - Ken S - 04-10-2017

Very clever repurposing, Mark!

Ken

RE: Building a Super Forge - Bubby - 04-11-2017

Thanks for the explanation Mark. Now I get it. An adjustable forge. Like I said earlier, I'm simply fascinated by this project. Your new forge is just like my farm tractors. If you think a 60 horsepower tractor might be about right for the job then buy a 100 and you'll have it about right.

RE: Building a Super Forge - Mark Reich - 04-11-2017

Thank you all for your interest and positive feedback! It means a lot to me.  Smile 

I still have a lot of work to do on this forge, and it's pretty boring. I'm anxious to get it finished and running full steam so we can see what it will really do.

I'll surely keep y'all apprised!

RE: Building a Super Forge - Jan - 04-11-2017

Mark, I'm fascinated by your project. It is a boyish dream of every knife enthusiast. Thanks for posting the well documented story. Please keep us posted. Smile

To be sure about your 52100 steel. It is high carbon martensitic chrome steel, but a non stainless steel. I expect that the steel is magnetic. Correct? Undecided
 
Jan